280mm brakes being crap

Post 141392 by pzorb on 2006-09-11 07:18:17

Hey all, To balance the recent trend in bashing the original 280 brakes, I am happy to say that I don't find them to be lacking whatsoever. I have however recently been in an 850 T5 with utterly pants brakes, but this is almost certainly because they were past their servicable period (and thankfully ed's got some awesome looking replacements now - less deathage more stoppage :) ) I replaced my stock volvo set up with German Swedish French's OEM equivalent Brembo and Pagid pads (therefore still stock specification IIRC), new chunky stock brake lines and a 5.1 flush and they suffer no fade, don't bite unless you ask them to, and stop fast when required. The ABS has kicked in around 30mph when breaking hard in the past, which suggests the brakes can do a pretty good job of locking the wheels. I personally will only upgrade to bigger brakes for cosmetic 'filling the alloy' reasons. I'm not knocking the decisions of our other members here, just giving our joiners both perspectives on the option to spend their hard earned cash.

Post 141398 by The Flying Banana on 2006-09-11 08:47:16

I too have fitted OEM discs and pads last week ( 280 mm) and TBH i find even driving hard they do a confidence inspiring job , I travel fast and hard on all types of roads and would need a well balanced arguement to upgrade my road car to AP / WIllwood etc, like pzorb i am not saying anything bad against others opinions just agreeing to let others perhaps decide on which route to take

Post 141402 by dreadly on 2006-09-11 09:03:29

I find 306mm brakes lacking!!!

Post 141403 by volvotuning on 2006-09-11 09:05:05

When I had my 850R I also had 280 mm dics on it which were abolutely fine. The pads were Ferodo DS2500 and the stopping power was superb. Adam.

Post 141404 by chriskay on 2006-09-11 09:09:02

I, too have never had a problem with the 280 brakes, all OEM. That includes a modest amount of track time.

Post 141414 by thunderace on 2006-09-11 10:10:34

I have only ever had 1 spot of bother with the standard brakes, 4 up with luggage and dog, well over the ton and I got brake fade during an emergency type stop. It took a few miles for them to recover. May have been the discs, pads, lines, fluid or a combo, not sure. Other than that they always stop me when I want.. As pzorb says re filling the alloys, my discs are rusting away on the edges and I will be replacing them with larger ones.

Post 141418 by T-5ones on 2006-09-11 10:28:34

My V70 P1 stock brakes were pants, probably due to needing new fluid as new discs and ferodo pads didnt help. Just never got round to doing it. P2 with stock volvo discs and pads: I've got to be very careful when braking as they grip like hell and it will stop very well.

Post 141469 by dafinchie on 2006-09-11 16:20:22

My car has standard brakes, its a 855 t5 and i'm happy with them, pull up nice and sharp, had no probs with fade at all. I keep them well serviced linings fluid and such but this is no more than should be done with any car.

Post 141472 by Al115 on 2006-09-11 16:25:20

No sorry, they definitely suck. Even the 302mms lack when you use them hard, I set fire to mine on several occasions - new fluid, newish pads and discs, etc. Mountains, or lots of roundabouts (Milton Keynes anyone?) are the real issues. Each to their own! :)

Post 141475 by siamblue on 2006-09-11 16:35:10

[QUOTE=Al115]No sorry, they definitely suck. Even the 302mms lack when you use them hard, I set fire to mine on several occasions - new fluid, newish pads and discs, etc. Mountains, or lots of roundabouts (Milton Keynes anyone?) are the real issues. Each to their own! :)[/QUOTE] did mine in MK Al as well, absolutely cacked myself when they faded, bloody dangerous if you ask me, single piston caliper on a 1600kg car, capable of 155 mph plus, what were they thinking of?

Post 141476 by volvotuning on 2006-09-11 16:45:21

Hi Gary and Al, What pads were you using when they faded? We used a set of Ferodo DS2500 on a phase 2 V70 T5 on the track for several hours with no fade, and that was on the 302mm discs. Adam.

Post 141478 by BlackBeast on 2006-09-11 16:49:54

[QUOTE=siamblue] single piston caliper on a 1600kg car, capable of 155 mph plus, what were they thinking of?[/QUOTE] Hit the nail on the head there!!! :Handshake

Post 141485 by Al115 on 2006-09-11 16:59:48

[QUOTE=volvotuning]Hi Gary and Al, What pads were you using when they faded? We used a set of Ferodo DS2500 on a phase 2 V70 T5 on the track for several hours with no fade, and that was on the 302mm discs. Adam.[/QUOTE] Hey Adam. I haven't tried the Ferodos, I was running Mintex, and they bit well to start and performed well in general use, but faded when you pushed them hard. If I was sticking with the 302s I might try the Ferodos next, but don't expect them to stand up to prolonged abuse so am going BIGGER :anmflower

Post 141489 by BlackBeast on 2006-09-11 17:06:51

What setup are you going for Al???

Post 141491 by volvotuning on 2006-09-11 17:08:21

ok, that may explain it then. you'll be surprised just how long the Ferodo will go for without fade :) cheers, Adam.

Post 141493 by Al115 on 2006-09-11 17:18:36

[QUOTE=BlackBeast]What setup are you going for Al???[/QUOTE] Something BIGGER!!! :) But seriously - Porsche calipers, Volvo discs. Stuart @ SWAutos is putting a kit together along these lines, and it seemed a good balance between affordable consumables and increased stopping power.

Post 141494 by Al115 on 2006-09-11 17:20:06

[QUOTE=volvotuning]ok, that may explain it then. you'll be surprised just how long the Ferodo will go for without fade :) cheers, Adam.[/QUOTE] Yep, I've heard good things about them. They're still the same size as the regular items, though, so physics will win at some point! And I've had it with brake fade :lol:

Post 141497 by volvotuning on 2006-09-11 17:33:35

[QUOTE=Al115]Yep, I've heard good things about them. They're still the same size as the regular items, though, so physics will win at some point! And I've had it with brake fade :lol:[/QUOTE] Size ain't everything lol :) The USA proved during world war 2 that one relatively small bomb can wipe out a whole city! It's all in the chemistry :) Adam.

Post 141499 by Engineer on 2006-09-11 17:46:35

[quote=volvotuning]Size ain't everything lol :) The USA proved during world war 2 that one relatively small bomb can wipe out a whole city! It's all in the chemistry :) Adam.[/quote] Atomic brake pads! Now there's a thought Adam :wink:

Post 141500 by GregE102 on 2006-09-11 17:50:24

[QUOTE=volvotuning]Size ain't everything lol :) The USA proved during world war 2 that one relatively small bomb can wipe out a whole city! It's all in the chemistry :) Adam.[/QUOTE] Hi I think you wil find the USA dropped two small bombs 1 on Hiroshima and 1 on nagassaki, both of which di an excellant job, Hmmm now i see you point!. Well made Adam!. Greg

Post 141501 by Mrsmopp on 2006-09-11 18:08:03

I find it hard to believe that Chriskay can do various track days (bearing in mind he is a member of the HPC and KNOWS how to drive AND has an auto) feels the standard set up isn't lacking and yet a certain few cant seem to use them on the road for general driving!!!???? Bizarre!! x

Post 141505 by Al115 on 2006-09-11 18:17:35

Post 141506 by Engineer on 2006-09-11 18:18:36

[quote=Mrsmopp]I find it hard to believe that Chriskay can do various track days (bearing in mind he is a member of the HPC and KNOWS how to drive AND has an auto) feels the standard set up isn't lacking and yet a certain few cant seem to use them on the road for general driving!!!???? Bizarre!! x[/quote] I guess these particular road drivers are all total maniacs and should be locked up hun lol :) Brake fade on the road I ask yeh :cussing: Lock em up lol.

Post 141509 by Al115 on 2006-09-11 18:23:46

Drop it! the thread's been interesting and doesn't need to degenerate :)

Post 141511 by Engineer on 2006-09-11 18:27:03

[quote=Al115]Drop it! the thread's been interesting and doesn't need to degenerate :)[/quote] Only joking Gov :)

Post 141512 by dreadly on 2006-09-11 18:32:38

[quote=volvotuning]Hi Gary and Al, What pads were you using when they faded? We used a set of Ferodo DS2500 on a phase 2 V70 T5 on the track for several hours with no fade, and that was on the 302mm discs. Adam.[/quote] Adam, I was using stock disks, Black Diamond pads and managed to get the system so messed up it turned off the DTSC and ABS and gave a computer warning, other Board members where in the car at the time. It was lucky that leather is wipe clean :) Hence the comments after the Bournemouth meetup regarding brake issues... I don't know if they caught fire, but there was a lot of smoke. Mind you... I decided to bleed my brakes today and there where a lot of air bubbles in the fluid... :( Addition:- Was repeatedly braking from ~150 to 0 so rather harsh conditions.... I would like to go the Porsche caliper route though, where do I get them, what model are they from? Do I need any other parts or just calipers and 305mm disks?

Post 141524 by BlackBeast on 2006-09-11 19:11:56

[QUOTE=Mrsmopp]I find it hard to believe that Chriskay can do various track days (bearing in mind he is a member of the HPC and KNOWS how to drive AND has an auto) feels the standard set up isn't lacking and yet a certain few cant seem to use them on the road for general driving!!!???? Bizarre!! x[/QUOTE] This is the Volvo PERFORMANCE Club, im on here so i can improve all aspects of my cars performance, which includes being able to stop at a faster rate than a standard car! Ive never experienced fade with my 280mm setup, the bite and braking performance are not that good though imo, hence the reason to upgrade to a better and proved caliper design. Nothing bizarre about wanting to improve everything. Why do most, if not all performance/ish cars have 4pots up front and some even on the rear? Now thats bizarre!!

Post 141528 by siamblue on 2006-09-11 19:17:07

Post 141529 by Unknown on 2006-09-11 19:18:04

[QUOTE=pzorb]Hey all, To balance the recent trend in bashing the original 280 brakes, I am happy to say that I don't find them to be lacking whatsoever. I have however recently been in an 850 T5 with utterly pants brakes, but this is almost certainly because they were past their servicable period (and thankfully ed's got some awesome looking replacements now - less deathage more stoppage :) [/QUOTE] :) , lets face it, i was living on the knife edge with thoses "brakes". The new discs coped fine and bit hard when i was towing the other day, 2 tons no less, plus my lardy behind.

Post 141530 by volvotuning on 2006-09-11 19:20:20

[QUOTE=BlackBeast]This is the Volvo PERFORMANCE Club, im on here so i can improve all aspects of my cars performance, which includes being able to stop at a faster rate than a standard car! Ive never experienced fade with my 280mm setup, the bite and braking performance are not that good though imo, hence the reason to upgrade to a better and proved caliper design. Nothing bizarre about wanting to improve everything. Why do most, if not all performance/ish cars have 4pots up front and some even on the rear? Now thats bizarre!![/QUOTE] No one is denying that! However, for most people, a decent set of pads and 280 mm or 302 mm are good enough for the road. As Al said, if the setup is fine for your needs, leave it. If not, upgrade them or drive slower. My other point is that the people who have been experiencing severe fade have not (to my knowledge) been using DS2500 pads. You can do all the upgrading you like, but the pads are also part of the upgrade process, be it on stock discs, or 3 billion mm discs with 60 pot calipers! A bad choice of pad will not give your brake upgrade it's full potential stopping power. Adam.

Post 141610 by chriskay on 2006-09-11 23:02:55

I wonder whether the problems people seem to be having might be due to the need for a fluid change. When I had new discs & pads about 15,000 miles ago, I got them to change the fluid too. That was after my trip to Nurburgring (where I didn't go that fast.....RESPECT!!), but before my last day at Oulton Park, which I know quite well. I drove like a loon & didn't have an anxious moment. On that occasion, I was there with HPC & 2 very experienced track members drove my car, without apparent problems. To repeat, this is with standard Volvo components. Cheers, Chris.

Post 141620 by Redbrick on 2006-09-11 23:34:44

[QUOTE=chriskay]I wonder whether the problems people seem to be having might be due to the need for a fluid change. When I had new discs & pads about 15,000 miles ago, I got them to change the fluid too. That was after my trip to Nurburgring (where I didn't go that fast.....RESPECT!!), but before my last day at Oulton Park, which I know quite well. I drove like a loon & didn't have an anxious moment. On that occasion, I was there with HPC & 2 very experienced track members drove my car, without apparent problems. To repeat, this is with standard Volvo components. Cheers, Chris.[/QUOTE] Is it not down to driving style? I think I can say Chris that your level of training and ability probably mean that you rely less on your brakes than say I would, me being a point and shoot sort of driver. You probably use your brakes less as you match your speed to the situation. For the record I have faded my AP DS2500 pads, big time, coming up from Bournemouth with a bench and full set of weights in my boot! Lots of very quick 'A' roads and roundabouts. I run DS2500 pads and Brembo discs on my Passat and have never had fade with that set up.

Post 141916 by Justin on 2006-09-13 12:47:01

[quote=Redbrick]Is it not down to driving style? I think I can say Chris that your level of training and ability probably mean that you rely less on your brakes than say I would, me being a point and shoot sort of driver. You probably use your brakes less as you match your speed to the situation. For the record I have faded my AP DS2500 pads, big time, coming up from Bournemouth with a bench and full set of weights in my boot! Lots of very quick 'A' roads and roundabouts. I run DS2500 pads and Brembo discs on my Passat and have never had fade with that set up.[/quote] Lol, so what Black brick is saying is this: If you need to upgrade to bigger brakes, you have no idea how to drive lol! Get some new decent disks and pads, get proper fluid in the lines and hey presto, £1000 better off and it will stop. Spend the savings on suspension and it may also go round corners. Nuff said about poncy brakes!