Legal Advice?

Post 281916 by Dangerous Dave on 2010-01-15 18:10:20

Hi guys, a question for any of the legal bods out there..... Having a problem with work at the moment. Basically they've come to me and said that they've overpaid me for the last 5 years a total of £5800, and they're asking for only 1 year back (a little over £1100). They say that the evidence they have is that I was issued a contract back in 2004 which states the correct pay, but I have no record of this contract nor have they got the letter that is sent out with the contract that has to be signed and sent back, but they say that it doesn't matter and they're still asking for the money. They met with me before xmas to give some options of paying the money back, either in monthly payments over 12 months, or working half of it off, and paying the other half, and to tell me that I had to drop down a payscale to match what the contract said. Now, I really can't afford to pay it back (besides the principle of not wanting to) after losing £800 a year, and then having to pay back every month on top of that as well, I'm not going to be able to live, I'll just be going to work and coming home. I had a meeting with them today (without representation) to appeal against the repayment, but they just turned it down, but offered an option to work the whole overpayment off (which isn't too bad an offer), and gave me an ultimatum (deadline the end of Jan) of working it all off, or they automatically take the money off Februarys pay. Can they just give me an ultimatum of 'work it off or we take the money without asking' without giving me an option to say 'none of the above'? They're saying that they can just take the money off my pay, is that illegal? What you think?

Post 281918 by Ians on 2010-01-15 18:20:07

Hi as far as I know they cant take your pay without you agreeing. It happened to my wife a few years ago the outcome was she had to pay it back over a period of time. Ring ACAS or citizens advice. Good luck

Post 281919 by Wombatbomb on 2010-01-15 18:22:06

Yes they can.... http://www.paypershop.com/faq/overpaid.html

Post 281923 by Dangerous Dave on 2010-01-15 18:31:54

I'm ****ed basically.

Post 281925 by PNuT on 2010-01-15 18:43:07

[quote=bomb192uk;281916]What you think?[/quote] http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Pay/DG_175878 join a trade union, although they may not deal with this case as it predates your membership you will have someone with you who knows what they are doing in the future....

Post 281931 by PNuT on 2010-01-15 18:49:59

[quote=Wombatbomb;281919]Yes they can.... http://www.paypershop.com/faq/overpaid.html[/quote] the question tho is it a genuine over payment? 5 years? with no paperwork to back up the claims....

Post 281998 by castellsmith123 on 2010-01-15 22:03:40

Go to the CAB.and get legal advice,quickly! Unless they have the contract that you have agreed to and signed they can not do anything! Also it is grounds for harasment if they keep asking for it! But they can make life very difficuit for and you could end up leaving! Also get a copy of the wages act 1986!

Post 282000 by Bob France on 2010-01-15 22:12:19

I am certainly no expert,But if they don't have a signed contract with the correct amount on it,I cannot see how they have a case.Perhaps this is the reason why they are only asking for one year's repayment.There is a clause in the pay per shop article that says that it cannot cause you undue hardship also.If your relationship with your firm is good and you are happy in your job,I would suggest you try to meet them halfway and at least show some willing on your part.I know this is easy to say from an outside point of view but I hope it helps,whatever happens,good luck

Post 282007 by Dangerous Dave on 2010-01-15 22:59:06

After calming down a bit, I think I'm gonna work it back as it works out to 12 hours a month (and I get time + half too, so maybe 8 hours a month) and the only thing its impacting on is my time and not my pocket. Its a large-ish company, and I'm quite happy there (well I was) and its good pay for what I do (not a lot). The only thing that gets me is that I've done shed loads of stuff that isn't covered in my job role (people come to me for all sorts of things), and it counts for nothing, they just don't give a ****. It pisses me off, and I'm not going to be doing anything like that in future.

Post 282010 by castellsmith123 on 2010-01-15 23:20:52

You still need to take advice from the CAB or legal as there could be long term problem's if you don't! You need to have your contract or you are going to get walked on! It be be worth your time to sort this out! Good Luck!! Just spoken to the wife and she tell's me that it is up to the company to prove this and until they can produce the evidence they can not do anything! She works in HR.

Post 282095 by gazjacko on 2010-01-16 14:33:14

We ahd the same issue at our workplace a few years back, and as a Union rep I was involved in the discusions. At first we all felt pretty much how you did, although it was their mistake and they highlighted it within a month (it was a 'back pay' issue where they told us we would be getting back pay, it turned up in the wages then they realised we weren't entitled to it.) some had already spent it and we ALL had to pay it back. From what I recall there was legislation to say we couldn't be made financially vulnerable in paying it back and I believe the timescale for paying it should be the same perid as that over which it was accrued, (which may be why they're just looking at the last year). You really need representation and any reasonable firmshould accept you attending these meetings accompanied by a 'friend' in lieu of a Union Rep if you're not in one. The friend should make notes and you should be able to break to discuss your position. If I was your rep I'd say they'd offered you a fair deal, (get it recorded!) put it down to experience. Join a Trade Union!!! They are about workers rights not just strikes and dissruption.

Post 282306 by Dangerous Dave on 2010-01-17 09:02:01

[quote=gazjacko;282095] If I was your rep I'd say they'd offered you a fair deal, (get it recorded!) put it down to experience. Join a Trade Union!!![/quote] Cheers Gaz, I've decided on the working it back option, like you say its a fair enough deal (failing writing the debt off) And I would join a union, but our reps are absolutely useless.

Post 282312 by sebasteeno on 2010-01-17 09:26:13

Im fairly sure that you dont have to sign any contract for it to become legally binding. Just by working to its conditions and pay means you have agreed to it.

Post 282637 by wegal on 2010-01-18 14:08:29

Ask to see a copy of your contract of employment that you signed. If they dont have one they dont have a leg to stand on. It really is that simple. An employer has to issue you with a copy of your contract. You sign and return it, and they give you a copy. In reality you should have two originals both of which are signed by you and your employer. You MUST ask to see the copy that you signed and returned. If they dont have that copy then they simply dont have a case. If they have a copy of it with yuor signiture, then Im afraid its a simple mistake and you are liable to repay the overpayments. In which case you need to doa deal with them. What they have offered is not that bad in that case. However I would wantt o see the original contract first... so will any solicitor. Good luck. Personally Id tell em to stick it if they cant prove it.

Post 282725 by gazjacko on 2010-01-18 19:23:54

Sorry to disagree but i believe that if you are issued with a contract and you start to work under those conditions you are deemed to have accepted it whether you signed your copy or not.

Post 282837 by thebadger on 2010-01-19 01:03:42

I'm sure I heard somewhere that if you have worked at a higher pay grade, the company may not reduce the pay grade after (IIRC) 12 months. This is due to your status as an individual would become accustomed to the higher pay rate. Now in your situation I'd assume that as this was their error & that they have allowed this issue to go unchecked for that length of time, they want to make it go away quickly to help cover the potential backlash & having to keep paying you at this rate. If that is the case, get legal advice, someone who specifically deals in employment law to clarify (more than anyone else) to you where you stand. The company has probably offered to ignore a large part of the "due sum" as they have no right to get it back. It's actually more likley to be the first year that this represents! But I still maintain they cannot drop your salary after 5 years of higher payments.