Reliant Scimitar SE-T5

Post 643975 by Smiler on 2013-09-13 22:17:02

Hello folks, I have a cunning plan to update my 42yr old Reliant Scimitar with some light weight (compared to it's original 3.0ltr Essex V6) modern turbo power! I was originally looking to fit the all alloy 3.0ltr V6 from a Jaguar S-Type (240bhp) but wiring was going to cause problems and probably incur the expense of after market management. But then whilst flicking through some old PPC magazines I had a eureka moment, go Volvo T5! It will probably be an easier swap and will have more tuning potential afterwards. It's also that little bit different. The Jag V6 would have suited the character of the car perfectly with a set of individual down-draughts but cost and development would be prohibitive. The Jag lump doesn't seem to have attracted much interest with engine converters (probably due to the engine management system being nigh on impossible to extract from the donor car) and so there's not much support out there. But hey, a straight 5 is almost there; it's one cylinder short and the wrong configuration but it still makes a nice noise and when the car goes like a scalded cat it'll soon have me grinning again. So, first up, here's the subject of my proposed engine conversion, my 1971 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE: I have received a lot of guidance from some members of the Retro-Rides forum which is also from where I was guided to this forum. What I seem to have established so far is: The engine variant to look for is the BT5235T in 240hp guise as found in the Volvo 850. Later 'ME7' engines (which relates to the management software version) use electronic throttle. The high/full pressure turbo is the -16T variant. I need a white block M90 gearbox and prop-shaft from a 6 cylinder Volvo 960 or V90, but these are quite rare as most 6 cylinder Volvos where auto's. I need the flywheel and clutch from a 5-cylinder Volvo 850. Also, the turbo will be facing the wrong way as standard in it's new longitudinal configuration (exhaust pointing forward, inlet facing rearward). All of the above was thanks to the fine folk on Retro-Rides. Does that all sounds correct? Anything I may have missed? Any other options/alternative? Any new suggestions? I am in the research phase at the moment, I need to sell my old Cortina (2.9ltr Cosworth V6) and Escort (2.0ltr Zetec) first but moves are afoot! Many thanks for any help. Smiler.

Post 643988 by hybriduno on 2013-09-13 22:47:29

awesome stuff :P it may help (it may not) I have Lots of files in pdf/jpeg/blah blah blah that I used to get the volvaxo where it is today :) if u need any wiring diagrams just holla :) I have ecu pinouts etc etc too :) Oh and try and get a non imob car to start with ei: pre 1996 I belive, as that will remove a lot of the headache ! although you can just get a mapped ecu without the imob part on it ;) good luck with your venture!

Post 643993 by smithy on 2013-09-13 22:58:24

I have always liked the se6 and the gtc too .

Post 643994 by deathrider311271 on 2013-09-13 23:01:19

nice idea, but surely the granada cosworth with a couple of turbos would be better (dont answer that one i already know the answer) and more in keeping

Post 643997 by martybelfastt5 on 2013-09-13 23:03:55

oh this will be good love conversions like this.....be carful on flywheel selection merc85 had starting trouble which was down to wrong year of flywheel if im not mistaken so get flywheel from engine donor car

Post 644004 by Smiler on 2013-09-13 23:33:55

Thanks for the words of encouragement. First job of course is to get the two Fords sold on but if I can get the parts list and plan set out in the mean time it'll all help. If the immobilizer side of the engine management can be retained with the use of the donors original key then I would rather like to keep it. 42 year old cars aren't the hardest things to get into and it's going to be quite an attractive target. At present I have to make do with the old trick of removing the rotor arm, at least not many crooks carry them around with them anymore. Thanks for the tip-off about the flywheel. As for the Cosworth suggestion, I've got one of those in the Cortina. A bit old hat and heavy now and parts cost a fortune. So is all that I stated in the first post correct?

Post 644019 by y2blade on 2013-09-14 00:35:47

Fantastic :D

Post 644022 by The Flying Moose on 2013-09-14 03:46:44

Princess Anne had one dont you know??? ;) Very interesting project, Ill be watching with interest! The 3.0 Essex is a nice engine though, for its era at least. They are getting rare too, I certainly wouldnt ditch it when it comes out, many a Capri owner could do with a spare.

Post 644024 by jamesy12345 on 2013-09-14 03:55:36

Nice project! My pal from a while ago had a Scimitar, he sold it on and started doing a Jensen Intercepter :D I think you mean the B5234 engine mate, this used Motronic 4.3/4.4 management and throttle cables up until about '98. For example my S70 is the B5234T3 with M4.4 management and a cable rather than fly-by-wire throttle, so I can sleep safe at night knowing I am in control List of engines & turbos here: http://www.wothrline.com/main/main_engine_performance.htm Click on 'Engine data' Looking forward to following this

Post 644049 by claymore on 2013-09-14 08:49:06

I can't see why you couldn't clock the turbo and put it on upside down, so that the exhaust is at the back.

Post 644058 by Smiler on 2013-09-14 09:02:03

Thanks for the replies, the Essex in my car is a good one having been rebuilt at some point. I shall have a look through that link for the engine, thanks. As for the turbo, that's what I was thinking doing. The compressor and turbine housings I'm hoping can be rotated about the centre core. Princess Anne? I never knew that... ;)

Post 644059 by p fandango on 2013-09-14 09:02:43

nice project [QUOTE=Smiler;643975]The engine variant to look for is the BT5235T in 240hp guise as found in the Volvo 850[/quote] i'm guessing you mean B5234T5, which yes is 240bhp (only for 30seconds when the ecu goes into overboost), but is a T-5R engine/ecu & these cars are getting rare & expensive. All the 2319cc engine blocks are basically the same, so your better off just buying a normal T-5 as a donor car & build up the spec to what you want

Later 'ME7' engines (which relates to the management software version) use electronic throttle

& to be avoided in my opinion, they also have coil-on-plug & a few other little tweaks but not an easy system to work

The high/full pressure turbo is the -16T variant

their were many HPT turbo's used throughout the years, 15g, 16t, 18t & 19t

I need a white block M90 gearbox and prop-shaft from a 6 cylinder Volvo 960 or V90, but these are quite rare as most 6 cylinder Volvos where auto's

surely the length of the propshaft sets where the rear axle is, so you might have to get one custom fabricated

Post 644062 by Smiler on 2013-09-14 09:19:04

Thanks very much, that's all good to know. I have an article on the T5 engine in a copy of PPC magazine somewhere, I just need to find it! I'm going to have to price up an engine donor. Any particular models to look out for? Or is that a rather large list? As for prop shaft, I will need a custom one yes. But I'll need the front half of the volvo shaft (along with the rear half of the Scimitar shaft) for the yokes to get it made. So the car shopping list at present is: Volvo 960/V90 6 cylinder manual for the gearbox & prop. Volvo ??? (Years ? - ?) engine donor

Post 644064 by nobananas on 2013-09-14 09:32:18

Sounds like a great project but I'd be itching to put a V8 in there (BMW or an LS of some type !). I read PPC too but don't believe everything that gets printed in there, most is spot on but occasionally some of their facts are off (noticed this a few times when they do features with T5 engines !) You might recognise claymores motor as it was featured a few months go ! As for doner vehicles, any 850 T5 will do you, you can play about with turbos and injectors later.

Post 644065 by p fandango on 2013-09-14 09:33:48

[QUOTE=Smiler;644062]I'm going to have to price up an engine donor. Any particular models to look out for? Or is that a rather large list?[/QUOTE] to avoid the ME7 any pre-1998/9 T-5, either 850, S70, V70 or C70. The 850 will be easier to find, but 15g & 225bhp. The S/V/C70 will have a 16g & 240bhp, but started production in 1997 so be harder to find one before they changed to ME7 (if its got a blue badge on the grill its ME7, & it'll obviously no throttle cable)

Post 644067 by stribo on 2013-09-14 09:43:56

Welcome to the forum, looks like an interesting project.

Post 644079 by jamesy12345 on 2013-09-14 10:16:01

[QUOTE=p fandango;644065]to avoid the ME7 any pre-1998/9 T-5, either 850, S70, V70 or C70. The 850 will be easier to find, but 15g & 225bhp. The S/V/C70 will have a 16g & 240bhp, but started production in 1997 so be harder to find one before they changed to ME7 (if its got a blue badge on the grill its ME7, & it'll obviously no throttle cable)[/QUOTE] Something like one of these....both are M4.4 i.e. throttle cable versions as far as I can tell, someone correct me if I'm talking BS http://www.gumtree.com/p/cars-vans-motorbikes/volvo-s70-t5-auto-low-mileage-black-heated-leather-stunning-car/1029983277 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLVO-S70-R-2-3-T5-1998-SALVAGE-PARTS-BREAKING-FOR-SPARES-/130989049885

Post 644086 by Dangerous Dave on 2013-09-14 10:58:26

One other little gem is that you can tune M4.3/M4.4 yourself. The guys over at Volvospeed have a thread about it http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/159506-tuners-rejoice-free-tuning-for-m44/

Post 644088 by jamesy12345 on 2013-09-14 11:05:10

[QUOTE=Dangerous Dave;644086]One other little gem is that you can tune M4.3/M4.4 yourself. The guys over at Volvospeed have a thread about it http://volvospeed.com/vs_forum/topic/159506-tuners-rejoice-free-tuning-for-m44/[/QUOTE] reading that thread you linked made me feel inadequate as a man lol i'm going home to kick the missus and hump the cat or something like that I made an attempt to get the bin file out of my 480 ECU, opened it up and the was no EPROM inside haha Never mind I have a RICA ECU for my S70 to play with, I'm sure that will have an EPROM inside for me :D

Post 644193 by Smiler on 2013-09-14 18:50:49

Wow, that engine management thread is a bit full depth! I might leave that side of things to the specialist tuners. I obviously will want to up the performance of the engine over time once it's fitted. Is 300bhp an unrealistic figure to aim for? Or is that going to get quite expensive? I need to keep an eye on prices of engines/donor cars too. The original Jag S-type donors were droping into the sub £500 mark quite often. Granted not as easy to sort the management out but I need to keep costs under control. Smiler.

Post 644305 by Santa on 2013-09-14 21:24:50

Could be an interesting project, keep us posted :)

Post 644314 by stribo on 2013-09-14 21:40:52

I'd love to see pics of the 'Tina and Escort.

Post 644322 by Smiler on 2013-09-14 21:49:54

Take a look here: www.Auto-TaT.co.uk Smiler.

Post 644500 by AndysR on 2013-09-15 18:25:45

What a great project, my dad's first car ws an SE5a and I used to help him clean it when "I were a lad" loved that car :( Anyway fantasitc idea, will be watching with interest so please keep us updated :)

Post 644517 by Smiler on 2013-09-15 19:08:52

Wow,that's quite some first car! Mine was a mk1 Fiesta with the 'big' 1.3ltr Kent engine.

Post 644526 by AndysR on 2013-09-15 19:17:28

[QUOTE=Smiler;644517]Wow,that's quite some first car! Mine was a mk1 Fiesta with the 'big' 1.3ltr Kent engine.[/QUOTE] Lol, the Mk1 Fiesta wasn't available when he bought that so he was "forced to seek an alternative"...but if it was..... His next car was a Volvo 760 Estate... Joys of a family... but he was saved by his midlife crises which found him back in a 2 door car again this time it was red and fitted with a midmounted V8 so he was happy again... lol

Post 645025 by Smiler on 2013-09-17 21:52:07

Sounds like quite some mid-life crisis car too, mid-mounted V8. Does the colour have any significance to what it is?

Post 645051 by jamesy12345 on 2013-09-18 05:07:50

[QUOTE=Smiler;644193]Wow, that engine management thread is a bit full depth! I might leave that side of things to the specialist tuners. I obviously will want to up the performance of the engine over time once it's fitted. Is 300bhp an unrealistic figure to aim for? Or is that going to get quite expensive? I need to keep an eye on prices of engines/donor cars too. The original Jag S-type donors were droping into the sub £500 mark quite often. Granted not as easy to sort the management out but I need to keep costs under control. Smiler.[/QUOTE] I think 300 hp with a 16T is hard work mate but you can get around the 280 mark with a decent remap and a full exhaust.....mine is a 2.75" (wide ;)) and I am supposed to be getting 285 hp and 420 Nm.....which is nice

Post 645132 by Smiler on 2013-09-18 20:00:33

Is that all? Just 280bhp in my 42yr old fibre glass car? That's only double the power with a noticeable decrease in weight. I might have to reconsider this idea... :snail: :P

Post 645227 by jamesy12345 on 2013-09-19 06:13:14

[QUOTE=Smiler;645132]Is that all? Just 280bhp in my 42yr old fibre glass car? That's only double the power with a noticeable decrease in weight. I might have to reconsider this idea... :snail: :P[/QUOTE] haha try it you might like it :P

Post 645319 by partsforvolvos.com on 2013-09-19 14:47:43

welcome, 300bhp is very realistic - this can be done by simply mapping a 16t or 18t engine.

Post 645501 by Smiler on 2013-09-20 11:48:01

It is achievable then. To be honest, I think that at those outputs I'll be having serious traction issues anyway even with an LSD fitted (which I don't currently have).

Post 645505 by jamesy12345 on 2013-09-20 12:13:03

[QUOTE=Smiler;645501]It is achievable then. To be honest, I think that at those outputs I'll be having serious traction issues anyway even with an LSD fitted (which I don't currently have).[/QUOTE] automatics help with the traction :D.........probably by drinking all of your power lol

Post 645877 by Smiler on 2013-09-21 21:23:59

An auto would help ease the squeeze in the drivers foot well. The pedals are quite small and quite close together and I have size 11 clogs! Progress has been made on the Cortina today and tomorrow might see the 2.9ltr Cosworth V6 and 5 speed gearbox put back into the car. Another step closer to its sale reducing the fleet and raising funds.

Post 645887 by stribo on 2013-09-21 21:41:37

I'm assuming the Scimitar has a live rear axle, are you going to beef it up with a Watts linkage, or 5 point linkage?

Post 645901 by Smiler on 2013-09-21 22:20:16

Ah, Reliant did a very good job when they designed and built the Scimitar. At the front it employs the double wishbone set up of the Triumph TR6 complete with proper coil-overs. The rear end is indeed a live axle. It is located by a pair of parallel trailing bars and a Watts linkage as standard. It also employs coil-overs. (These are not my photos, I just google imaged them) An LSD from a Jaguar fits the axle, I just can't remember which one.

Post 645991 by lance on 2013-09-22 10:23:34

That's going to be wild get it built and show us all up on the 1/4 mile princess Ann style

Post 646026 by AndysR on 2013-09-22 14:50:56

[QUOTE=Smiler;645025]Sounds like quite some mid-life crisis car too, mid-mounted V8. Does the colour have any significance to what it is?[/QUOTE] Yes ;)

Post 646107 by Smiler on 2013-09-22 19:33:47

[QUOTE=lance;645991]That's going to be wild get it built and show us all up on the 1/4 mile princess Ann style[/QUOTE] I like that, burning up the quater mile Princess Anne style. I might use that. [QUOTE=AndysR;646026]Yes ;)[/QUOTE] Ferrari 308?

Post 646201 by AndysR on 2013-09-22 22:28:01

[QUOTE=Smiler;646107]I like that, burning up the quater mile Princess Anne style. I might use that. Ferrari 308?[/QUOTE] Yes none other than a GTS QV, one of the last to enter the country in fact..

Post 646220 by Smiler on 2013-09-22 22:57:55

Very nice! I'm not too clued up on Ferrari's but I do like the 308, a very handsome looking car. It's certainly one of the few Ferraris I'd entertain owning if I won the euromillions jackpot (unlikely as I don't play).

Post 652531 by Smiler on 2013-10-14 12:30:16

Bad news I'm afraid, the missus is being made redundant! As a result we're having to tighten the purse strings and so this partciulaer project has been stopped before it's even started. If/when she finds something else, if the income is up to it, then hopefuly I'll be able to look into it again. Until then... Thanks for all the positive support and encouragement though, it's been really nice to know that someone can come onto here with plans to rob a desirable Volvo of it's engine to power a car by another manufacturer and not cause uproar and protest. You're all true petrol heads! :)

Post 652535 by M-R-P on 2013-10-14 12:39:56

Shame, I was looking forward to your project. Hope everything works out for you and the missus and we see you back here mate.

Post 652539 by jamesy12345 on 2013-10-14 12:55:01

Bad news fella. Don't let her get too comfortable, there's cars to be had!

Post 652556 by stribo on 2013-10-14 13:25:39

Hopefully she'll find something soon, then you can get the Scimitar (Princess Anne had one of those you know ;) ) back on track.

Post 652561 by jamesy12345 on 2013-10-14 13:33:30

[QUOTE=stribo;652556]Hopefully she'll find something soon, then you can get the Scimitar (Princess Anne had one of those you know ;) ) back on track.[/QUOTE] She did? Wow. But what's all this then?? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/motoring/article-2039669/Jensen-Interceptor-Princess-Anne-pleased-new-improved-sportscar.html [I] Original Model: Princess Ann's favourite sportcar the Jensen Interceptor was originally built between 1966 and 1976 and looks a little different to the new version[/I]