Just seen this on the news that says they just realise these really are dirty diesel after all. http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=bbc+news+london+diesel&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CAoQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk-england-london-28540259&ei=CP7XU9vuIu_y7Aa6x4C4Cw&usg=AFQjCNHQOqTFGPMSG6TgvF4V3F2YtLEFfg
Always said it was the devils fuel :)
My D5 doesn't smoke, yet my Dad's Skoda VRS (now sold) used to blow black soot out every time I planted my right foot. I don't think the D5 has a DPF either as it's the earlier model. Surely then, they can't be that dirty?
another way of shafting the motorists
My D5 fairly puffs out the black stuff when you plant it.
[QUOTE=merc85;726778]another way of shafting the motorists[/QUOTE] Just wait when they can change the road tax bands as they not as green is a thought,on all these diesel that have been bought in the last eight years.
the only reason is that there are more diesel cars ,vans and trucks on the road so there is more chance of extra revenue in the mayors piggy bank
Good idea, anything to cut the levels of traffic and meet pollution targets for London.
I was reading about this earlier, I think it will apply to petrol cars over 14 years old as well....
Ban all diesel cars, job done. :hidesbehi
Petrol cars registered before 2006 as well. Who wants to drive into London anyway. Boycott it.
[QUOTE=jdavis;726831]Petrol cars registered before 2006 as well. Who wants to drive into London anyway. Boycott it.[/QUOTE] TBH on the rare occasions I go into London I catch the train anyway, it's alot easier to get about on the tube than it is driving.
[QUOTE=jdavis;726831]Petrol cars registered before 2006 as well. Who wants to drive into London anyway. Boycott it.[/QUOTE] did the emissions laws change in 2006 or something..is a 2005 car so much dirtier than a 2006..?
[QUOTE=jamesy12345;726836]did the emissions laws change in 2006 or something..is a 2005 car so much dirtier than a 2006..?[/QUOTE] I know in 2006 the Tax bands changed, ie - a '55 plate mazda rx8 was £260 to tax for 12 months, while a 06' (after march) rx8 was over £400! Nothing changed in the car, only the taxng brackets! On the flip side, a lot of new car sales took advantage of this and introduced a lot of "eco" models, to benefit from the new tax rules in 2006. Some cars registered in 2005 were still £100+ to tax for a year while the same car registered in 06' would have cost you a lot less, some were £30 for the year, some were free!!
Typical global government meddling causing these issues. Planning laws which cause a shortage of building land and therefore concentrations of people and associated congestion. CO2 levels increased due to catalytic converters. NO2 levels increased because of the focus on CO2 levels. Now NO2 levels have focus it will cause the increase of something else toxic in the future. Keeping traffic moving would also reduce localised NO2 levels. I've known this had been coming for a few months now, like Steve I tend to train and tube into London though every so often I'll drive. One of the reasons I've being putting off replacing my diesel until next year
[QUOTE=Santa;726850]Typical global government meddling causing these issues. Planning laws which cause a shortage of building land and therefore concentrations of people and associated congestion. CO2 levels increased due to catalytic converters. NO2 levels increased because of the focus on CO2 levels. Now NO2 levels have focus it will cause the increase of something else toxic in the future. Keeping traffic moving would also reduce localised NO2 levels. I've known this had been coming for a few months now, like Steve I tend to train and tube into London though every so often I'll drive. One of the reasons I've being putting off replacing my diesel until next year[/QUOTE] So the 'harmful gases' that the Cat takes care of means it now pumps out another harmful gas, one that will increase global warming? Crazy isn't it!
Hopefully this will encourage more people to use public transport, I use to enjoy taking a lorry into London but I was being paid for it and really the congestion zone is quite a small area in the grand scheme of things.
[QUOTE=dionbullock;726847]I know in 2006 the Tax bands changed, ie - a '55 plate mazda rx8 was £260 to tax for 12 months, while a 06' (after march) rx8 was over £400! Nothing changed in the car, only the taxng brackets! On the flip side, a lot of new car sales took advantage of this and introduced a lot of "eco" models, to benefit from the new tax rules in 2006. Some cars registered in 2005 were still £100+ to tax for a year while the same car registered in 06' would have cost you a lot less, some were £30 for the year, some were free!![/QUOTE] yes it's a bit odd that 2006 cut off period considering the emissions laws aren't any tighter AFAIK [QUOTE=JamesT5;726860]So the 'harmful gases' that the Cat takes care of means it now pumps out another harmful gas, one that will increase global warming? Crazy isn't it![/QUOTE] Not just cats...cows do it also
[QUOTE=JamesT5;726860]So the 'harmful gases' that the Cat takes care of means it now pumps out another harmful gas, one that will increase global warming? Crazy isn't it![/QUOTE] Basically yes. We went from a gas which merely gave infants brain damage to one which threatens to destroy the worlds ecosphere.
Sounds like Boris wants to tick a box to say we've got one on these Ultra Low Emission Zones
So bring back leaded petrol.:thewave:
[QUOTE=JamesT5;726776]My D5 doesn't smoke, yet my Dad's Skoda VRS (now sold) used to blow black soot out every time I planted my right foot. I don't think the D5 has a DPF either as it's the earlier model. Surely then, they can't be that dirty?[/QUOTE] It's the pollutants that you can't see James, not the actual black smoke. Your D5 does not have a DPF, as you say, so the contaminants will be higher than a petrol car of the same age as the petrol car will have a Catalyst where as your dirty diesel doesn't.
This legislation only affects cars driving into central London where the Congestion charge zone is. That's actually not that big an area and one that I personally would never drive into anyway! I'd have to be mad to do that and would only ever get the train into London then travel by tube. I would only go to central London to either A) Go shopping or B) See the sights. Take's me 1 hour and 10 minutes to get from My local train station (10 minute walk) to central London. The same journey in the car (approx 40 miles) would take a good 2-3 hours........and then I gotta find a parking space. As Edmund King said, this will only really affect business users and company's that deliver to central London. I can still drive round the rest of London if I really wanted to....but why would I wanna do that? So, all you dirty Diesel drivers - don't panic. It doesn't affect you!
So glad I de-cat my D5....if only to add to the misery of those in the South :)
[QUOTE=stephenevans99;726891]So glad I de-cat my D5....if only to add to the misery of those in the South :)[/QUOTE] Don't you breath the same air we do in the South then? Well I live south of London so when the wind blows North you get all the pollution from London and all the de-cat diesels down here. :wink:
I breath the fresh & unpolluted air blown across from the Irish Sea..... ...right over Heysham Nuclear Power Station lol
[QUOTE=Santa;726877]Basically yes. We went from a gas which merely gave infants brain damage to one which threatens to destroy the worlds ecosphere.[/QUOTE] Well, I for one am enjoying the global warming. Termites produce the most CO2, so maybe we should cull them.;)
[QUOTE=stribo;726900]Well, I for one am enjoying the global warming. Termites produce the most CO2, so maybe we should cull them.;)[/QUOTE] No it's the Qatari's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita
[QUOTE=jamesy12345;726902]No it's the Qatari's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita[/QUOTE] That's not really representative, as it's per capita, so all the small nations look to be the worse polluters. It's the opposite with termites, each one produces little CO2, but because of the huge number of them, as a species, they produce far more than cows, and other ruminants.
[QUOTE=stribo;726906]That's not really representative, as it's per capita, so all the small nations look to be the worse polluters. It's the opposite with termites, each one produces little CO2, but because of the huge number of them, as a species, they produce far more than cows, and other ruminants.[/QUOTE] It represents a nation who could not give a toss about emissions anyway Can't find total output of termites on the net. They produce methane also! Didn't know that (I think I better go and find something to do, like compression tests)
[QUOTE=jamesy12345;726913]It represents a nation who could not give a toss about emissions anyway Can't find total output of termites on the net. They produce methane also! Didn't know that (I think I better go and find something to do, like compression tests)[/QUOTE] And number 2 is Trinidad and Tabago, are they heinous polluters as well, the Falkland Islands is number 10 ffs, that list is a joke. BTW methane is a far worse greenhouse gas than CO2, so I'm moving to Qatar to hunt termites.;)
The tube is hard work with a sick child, It was easier for us wen we need to go to Great Ormond Street Hosiptal to take the car, Looks like we will be going in the Wife's car next time.
[QUOTE=stribo;726917]And number 2 is Trinidad and Tabago, are they heinous polluters as well, the Falkland Islands is number 10 ffs, that list is a joke. BTW methane is a far worse greenhouse gas than CO2, so I'm moving to Qatar to hunt termites.;)[/QUOTE] you'd be welcome to come & visit have a look at this R for me not much wood here for termites!!
[QUOTE=jamesy12345;727016]you'd be welcome to come & visit have a look at this R for me not much wood here for termites!![/QUOTE] You pay for my (return) plane ticket, I'm there.:D
[QUOTE=stribo;727019]You pay for my (return) plane ticket, I'm there.:D[/QUOTE] VPC Christmas party in Dubia??? I'm sure someone suggested it
I see this has popped it head up again. http://news.sky.com/story/1474312/diesel-faces-crackdown-as-uk-ordered-to-act Court orders UK to cut NO2 air pollution - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-32512152
Won't be a problem for me, never owned a diesel, never will. ;)
Well Anne's just bought a Tiguan diesel and I drive round all day in a bus......
My 2003 Alfa 156 JTD is deffo a dirty diesel, and I'm not proud of it. Run her on V-Power all the time, keep her regularly serviced, and she keeps passing her MOT's. Saves me about 2.5k a year on fuel and that can't be ignored.
You can get good mpg out of petrols now though, my mate has some 1.4 golf thing. Its got 140bhp and he's getting 52mpg out of it.
My diesel golf is super clean on emissions, £30 a year tax, fuel gauge often shows 60mpg and it's pretty nippy as well.
[QUOTE=LiamT4;770741]You can get good mpg out of petrols now though, my mate has some 1.4 golf thing. Its got 140bhp and he's getting 52mpg out of it.[/QUOTE] Exactly, even the Golf R gets decent mpg, but it's affording the car in the 1st place.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;770749]My diesel golf is super clean on emissions, £30 a year tax, fuel gauge often shows 60mpg and it's pretty nippy as well.[/QUOTE] It may be clean, but apart from co2, petrol is cleaner. This is a fact that has been known for a while now.
I would be all too happy to have a T5, but 20 mpg doesn't appeal to me very much! Easily get double that with the D5.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;770749]My diesel golf is super clean on emissions, £30 a year tax, fuel gauge often shows 60mpg and it's pretty nippy as well.[/QUOTE] Sure they are going to look at the Tax levels to put people off diesel cars any time soon...watch this space.
My long term average in the T5 is 28.6 mpg that's town and motorway combined for about six months. I actually make money on running it as I claim 45 p a mile from my company. The car itself cost two bob to buy and insurance is 300 quid . Cheap luxury motoring. And it eats chav hatchbacks for brekkie.
[QUOTE=Orca2;770763]My long term average in the T5 is 28.6 mpg that's town and motorway combined for about six months. I actually make money on running it as I claim 45 p a mile from my company. The car itself cost two bob to buy and insurance is 300 quid . Cheap luxury motoring. And it eats chav hatchbacks for brekkie.[/QUOTE] Exactly my way of thinking as well. My cars are all paid for cos they're almost as cheap as chips, and I claim 45p/mile for the first 10,000 miles which is great, but then it hurts a bit when that drops to 25p/mile for the other 15,000 or so miles.
So if I want a T5 I will have to start my own business as well lol, so that I can afford the petrol! Anyone ever convert them to LPG?
If you are doing any serious mileage its almost worth starting a company just to farm your mileage through it , I put more than 14 grand through on last years accounts.
[QUOTE=Harvey;770762]Sure they are going to look at the Tax levels to put people off diesel cars any time soon...watch this space.[/QUOTE] One diesel and one petrol car in our family, I do 10000 miles a year in the M3 and we do about 15000 miles in the golf diesel. Even if they put diesel tax levels up its make sense for us to have a diesel as the family car. The golf runs on normal diesel so about £1.19 a liter, my M runs on V-power at £1.21 a litre. Being a petrol head is an expensive hobby lol.
[QUOTE=Orca2;770782]If you are doing any serious mileage its almost worth starting a company just to farm your mileage through it , I put more than 14 grand through on last years accounts.[/QUOTE] How does that work then?
Its cheaper than being a golfer , or sailing, and you get to enjoy your vice every day , hehe. Plus your grandkids wont believe you when you tell them you used to be able to buy petrol as cheaply and leather it down the roads at over a hundred. They will just look at each other and say , grandad is such a liar, . Its the end of days for petrol and diesel motors , enjoy it while you can . Lol
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;770788]How does that work then?[/QUOTE] http://www.contractoruk.com/expenses/ http://www.sjdaccountancy.com/about/ourservices/sjd_contractors_expenses.html
Thanks Jamesy ,you are too bleedin quick on the draw. Lol
[QUOTE=Orca2;770791]Thanks Jamesy ,you are too bleedin quick on the draw. Lol[/QUOTE] I've never done it myself but know plenty of lads who have. Any decent accountant will help
Actually mine is completely legit, but anyone who can run any part of their income through as a contractor is nuts if they are not claiming their mileage back out. I do cover huge mileages on business.
I saw this diesel thing comming over ten years ago when diesels weren't popular, they wanted to boost European car sales so the govt tricked everyone into buying a diesel and scrapping their big vauxhall petrol engines, it's the same again with these tiny euro cars they have a supply of them they want to shift, com on who on earth would want to drive a vw up or something like that lol, it's so transparent it's like everything the £££££ do lol
Diesel is cleaner on the m/way and for towing because they rev lower so therefor must be cleaner and greener. The bigger the petrol engine the cleaner it is aswell, Con artists the lot of them wait till we are all in vw ups the tax will go up on them.
[QUOTE=S40kieran;770802]Diesel is cleaner on the m/way and for towing because they rev lower so therefor must be cleaner and greener. The bigger the petrol engine the cleaner it is aswell, Con artists the lot of them wait till we are all in vw ups the tax will go up on them.[/QUOTE] Wrong, diesels give out particulates, which petrol engines don't.
[QUOTE=stribo;770815]Wrong, diesels give out particulates, which petrol engines don't.[/QUOTE] Petrols give out over things but it's a con in to boosting the European economy Stribo. Gordon brown did it with the scrappage scheme. It's the biggest con
Surely they are all burning the same fossil fuel-oil! Probs no real difference between the two as far as pollution goes. Its only a matter of time before they tell us that these, inceasingly popular, wood burning stoves are giving off damaging fumes as well, they will likely end up illegal too.
The diesel is a very versatile car Stutgart you have one I prefer them over petrol cars for m/way cruising and towing caravans. Nothing can touch a diesel in those circumstances, I miss my petrol for other reasons, but I think it's the biggest scam in the book tbh.
It's the way the fossil fuel is adapted to burn Essentially it's the same thing but being as I do a certain job and need to be up on this subject I can safely say diesel will always be dirtier that petrol and produce more harmful crap But then the crap most households use daily is more harmful than a dirty dirv
I'm surprised at the whale , a money savy businessman who does a lot of miles, you would think he would want a diesel. After all the D5 isn't exactly slow. I get the best of both worlds though, cause when I want some speed thrills I just jump onto my 600 Thundercat , 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 0-100 in 7.9. :)
Oooo a thunderprat lol Nice ride btw Only call them that cause down here they get jumped off a lot
[QUOTE=stribo;770815]Wrong, diesels give out particulates, which petrol engines don't.[/QUOTE] Correct! The general public are naive to the fact they think their 60 grand Audi Q7 diesel is nice and green and kind to the environment is because they can't see the black soot or diesel fumes coming out the exhaust. Fact is, this isn't true! The levels of NOx pollutants emitted from their exhausts is so damaging, which is why health groups have piled on the pressure to governments to act! If you have young children and you own a so called "green diesel" and you could see the crap that actually comes out your exhaust, you'd never buy another one and you'd probably sell it. All DPFs do is make the soot particles smaller. Have you ever seen a DPF being made to do a forced regen? If so, you know what I'm talking about.
Nah it has to be petrol. Diesels are too slow and noisy and stinky. And about to be too expensive.
Who actually cares
[QUOTE=Orca2;770835]Nah it has to be petrol. Diesels are too slow and noisy and stinky. And about to be too expensive.[/QUOTE] If I didn't have my bike, I would most likely agree with you mate.
I was going to point out how diesel is worse for our health than petrol but i have no need to as stribo, c70geoff and Leet5 have already done the job for me. A little bit of scientific research/knowledge can go a long way.
[QUOTE=stutgart69;770830]I'm surprised at the whale , a money savy businessman who does a lot of miles, you would think he would want a diesel. After all the D5 isn't exactly slow. I get the best of both worlds though, cause when I want some speed thrills I just jump onto my 600 Thundercat , 0-60 in 3.6 seconds and 0-100 in 7.9. :)[/QUOTE] The T5 isnt that far behind those figures , difference is I have a couple of passengers and a bootfull of equipment too. Have a drive in one then come back and tell me you think the D5 is nippy..
[QUOTE=LiamT4;770887]I was going to point out how diesel is worse for our health than petrol but i have no need to as stribo, c70geoff and Leet5 have already done the job for me. A little bit of scientific research/knowledge can go a long way.[/QUOTE] Ok then, "diesel engines can emit a fair amount of nitrogen compounds and particulate matter as they burn diesel fuel. These facts combined to give diesel fuel a bad environmental name, even though it in fact emits lower amounts of carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and carbon dioxide than does gasoline." "Of course, two of diesel fuel's environmental advantages have always been that diesel engines get better mileage than traditional gasoline engines and diesel fuel requires less refining. The energy costs required for refining crude oil into gasoline and the limitations placed on gasoline production by limited refineries in the United States both contribute to increased gasoline needs. To the degree that diesel fuel can offset the need for more gasoline, the environmental toll of refining gas is also reduced." http://auto.howstuffworks.com/fuel-efficiency/fuel-consumption/diesel-fuel-better-environment.htm "The question really isn’t which fuel or engine type is more environmentally friendly, as no form of engine that uses fossil fuels will ever become good for the environment. Rather, we should look at which has the capacity to inflict the least amount of damage to the environment. The Brotherhood of Bad Boys We have already been introduced to CO2 and how excess amounts of it is bad for the environment, but it isn’t the only one that brings the world harm. The use of engines, both petrol and diesel, produce the following: • Carbon monoxide or CO – Carbon monoxide, produced by petrol engines when a car is warming up, is lethal and there have been many accidents involving carbon monoxide poisoning • Suspended particulate matter or SPM – this is what the tiny particles emitted from the exhaust of a diesel engine are called. Soot is a tell-tale sign of SPM. Modern diesel engines are usually fitted with filters to lessen the amount of SPM emitted, but the bigger problem lies with older diesel engines that do not have particulate filters • Hydrocarbon or HC – Hydrocarbons contain harmful chemicals such as benzene, which causes cancer. Petrol engines emit higher levels of HC than diesel • Nitrous oxide or NOx – Nitrous oxide combines with the lowest level of the ozone layer to form smog. New diesel engines produce a higher amount of NOx than new petrol engines, but petrol-powered cars produce more NOx as time goes by. As we can see, when it comes to carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide, and hydrocarbons, it’s better to go with diesel engines. However when it comes to particulate matter, diesel engines lose to petrol. Both stand on equal ground when it comes to nitrous oxide. " http://www.clickgreen.org.uk/product/directory/125055-petrol-vs-diesel-which-is-more-environmentally-friendly-.html
[QUOTE=Orca2;770895]The T5 isnt that far behind those figures , difference is I have a couple of passengers and a bootfull of equipment too. Have a drive in one then come back and tell me you think the D5 is nippy..[/QUOTE] When you handing over the keys then? :rally_dri Seriously, I would love a T5, I just couldn't afford to run it.
You can have a shot any time you like Stoots , but I warn you , once you have driven it you will sell your bike , car ,house,kids,dog to run one ... And they arent nearly as bad as you think. I do about 40 k a year in mine and I couldnt downgrade now , they are the crystal meth of Volvos.
[QUOTE=Orca2;770902]You can have a shot any time you like Stoots , but I warn you , once you have driven it you will sell your bike , car ,house,kids,dog to run one ... [/QUOTE] Both my old T5's cost pennies to run compared to the M lol. I wouldn't sell my house, kids and dog just so I could run a T5 though :crazy:
Have you missed the point, or just read one source and not completely understood it? When it comes to our health, diesel is worse. They produce around 20x more NOx than petrol, which can lead to increased ground level ozone (bad for our health) and they produce far more particulates. It is these particulates that have the biggest effect on our health. Some of what that link is saying, is poorly stated, for example this > "New diesel engines produce a higher amount of NOx than new petrol engines, but petrol-powered cars produce more NOx as time goes by." < is misleading. Yes they produce more NOx as they get older, but they still produce less than diesel engines. The point that page (clickgreen) doesn't seem to understand is that when it simply states > "However when it comes to particulate matter, diesel engines lose to petrol." < is that it seems to be understating just how much those particulates affect our health. I suggest you look into the composition of those particulates and then you will realise why diesel is worse for our health, than petrol.
I kept the dog I quite like it...
[QUOTE=LiamT4;770906]Have you missed the point, or just read one source and not completely understood it? When it comes to our health, diesel is worse. They produce around 20x more NOx than petrol, which can lead to increased ground level ozone (bad for our health) and they produce far more particulates. It is these particulates that have the biggest effect on our health. Some of what that link is saying, is poorly stated, for example this > "New diesel engines produce a higher amount of NOx than new petrol engines, but petrol-powered cars produce more NOx as time goes by." < is misleading. Yes they produce more NOx as they get older, but they still produce less than diesel engines. The point that page (clickgreen) doesn't seem to understand is that when it simply states > "However when it comes to particulate matter, diesel engines lose to petrol." < is that it seems to be understating just how much those particulates affect our health. I suggest you you look into the composition of those particulates and then you will realise why diesel is worse for our health, than petrol.[/QUOTE] I live on the coast so get plenty of fresh air to breath in so don't really care what comes out of the exhaust lol. Most on here drive gas guzzlers, just drive what you want and enjoy it.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;770909]I live on the coast so get plenty of fresh air to breath in so don't really care what comes out of the exhaust lol. Most on here drive gas guzzlers, just drive what you want and enjoy it.[/QUOTE] Just pointing out facts, nothing more. Knowledge is better than ignorance.
[QUOTE=LiamT4;770910]Just pointing out facts, nothing more. Knowledge is better than ignorance.[/QUOTE] I don't think it is mate. Life's to short to worry about things like the essay you copied and pasted earlier.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;770912]I don't think it is mate. Life's to short to worry about things like the essay you copied and pasted earlier.[/QUOTE] So you prefer ignorance? That tells me a lot about you, it really does. Btw how can i have "copied and pasted"? I was replying to a link?? Please show me what you think i have copied and pasted.
This isn't a subject that can be ignored. Its a gradual process that will forever evolve.
Nah Mike is right, life is too short. And it is about to get even shorter, thanks to all that soot that I'm kicking out the back! :sinner:
[QUOTE=stutgart69;770925]Nah Mike is right, life is too short. And it is about to get even shorter, thanks to all that soot that I'm kicking out the back! :sinner:[/QUOTE] Completely agree. Infact I'm going to go and turn the fueling up to produce a bit more! :) What the UK produces is such a small insignificant amount in the total global production, but as usual us plucky bits will always try and make ourselves look better than everyone else or make out we have it worse. When you consider all the commercial vehicles around the world chugging through millions of gallons of diesel fuel it makes the fuss about diesel cars seem ridiculous and Ill judged. Pointing the finger at the minority, because they are never going to tell such a massive industry they have to change their whole fleet, is the obvious way to go. It's like bullying the weedy nerd at school. I don't think anything will really come of this latest nonsense so I shall happily keep chugging away in my diesel in ignorant bliss.
My biggest beef with all this is we are where we are due to knee jerk reactions by politicians and whatever legislation comes from this will likely be a knee jerk reaction putting off the issue to another day. Catalytic converters, the emmissions will be harmless.............yeah the outputted gas will just warm up the planet instead. Euro V diesels, go buy these, the output of CO2 will be lower..............sorry we forgot about NOx and that this has now increased as part of the measure to reduce CO2 output. Euro VI diesels, lets squirt urea (Adblue/DEF) into the catalytic converter to reduce NOx.................just waiting for the ill effects to be discovered on that. Localised high levels of NOx isn't a good thing either obviously. So what to do. Scrappage scheme for Euro V diesels is likely to be very expensive as some of the cars are as young as 12 months. Replacement of diesel buses and taxis in highly populated areas will also be expensive. Reducing traffic jams on major roads is likely to either be expensive (new infrastructure or traffic management) or unpopular (tolls or restricting goods traffic). Sooooooooooooooo the solution is likely to be: Control via taxes Legislation which is in line with the expected attrition of diesel assets. (Phasing out of Euro V buses and taxis over the next 5 ish years and cars, vans and lorries over the next 10). I did look at petrol PHEV cars recently, but at the higher speeds and distances of motorway driving it still seems diesel is king.
It's all a con santa I.m.o we will all swap back to big petrols that have some how become green and they will hike the taxes up on them, I have a theory here the eurozone is in crisis and it's where the main car manufactures are based what better way to boost the economy sell loads of these tiny so called green engined cars, which are useless as a choclate fire guard, unless youre an older person who never leaves the town youre in. For towing caravans and for long journeys as you point out diesel is king :) just because they rev low and are lazy.
I don't seem to understand why people go along the lines of "lifes to short so i'm just going to stay ignorant"? I'm not saying this because i'm worried about diesel polluting the environment, i'm simply pointing out some facts, which i have already stated. Its pretty simple. I used to drive a v8, so for me big v8s are best for long journeys because they rev low and are lazy ;) Diesel only if mpg is a priority and for me it isn't high up on my list because i do less than 15k a year.
I do roughly 13000 miles per year, The difference between a petrol @25mpg and a diesel @40mpg works out at over £1000 per year. That might be insignificant to you, but its not to me.
[QUOTE=stutgart69;770968]I do roughly 13000 miles per year, The difference between a petrol @25mpg and a diesel @40mpg works out at over £1000 per year. That might be insignificant to you, but its not to me.[/QUOTE] Its just different priorities, money is low on my list. Btw £1000 is far from insignificant to me, its just that i think there's more to life.
As soon as it becomes low on my list Liam, I will have myself a nice 'Green' T5 mate.:B_steerin
[QUOTE=stutgart69;770973]As soon as it becomes low on my list Liam, I will have myself a nice 'Green' T5 mate.:B_steerin[/QUOTE] I've just edited it just in case i sounded like a rich c*** who earns loads, so money is not an issue, which i'm not.................i may be a c***, but i'm not a rich one.
[QUOTE=LiamT4;770974]I've just edited it just in case i sounded like a rich c*** who earns loads, so money is not an issue, which i'm not.................i may be a c***, but i'm not a rich one.[/QUOTE] Lol.. No worries bud :)
[QUOTE=LiamT4;770974]I've just edited it just in case i sounded like a rich c*** who earns loads, so money is not an issue, which i'm not.................i may be a c***, but i'm not a rich one.[/QUOTE] :lol: as I understood..mpg doesn't worry you so much cos you don't do so many miles. MPG doesn't figure highly in my choice of car either as I do very little miles. But running costs do - for example I avoid buying cars in higher tax brackets...before 2001 I prefer! About the point of the thread - personally I can't see with anything wrong with discovering something new then acting on it. People thought smoking was a good idea a while ago....so if diesels are suddenly shown to kill the bunny rabbits more than petrols then yep, sorry, you will be taxed more, both to try and reduce usage and also to line some fat cats pockets. The environment is not our sink for dumping waste into. Hopefully a few years from now these hybrids will also be proven to be worse for the environment than the dinosaurs I like to drive about in :)
Liam you raise a good point with v8's I think they are fantastic but the powers to be don't they made them extinct, it's greener too keep one v8 already here built on the road than it is too build these so called green cars, the pollution in the manufacturing process emits more than these green cars will ever save, it's a massive con I wish people would wake up in the majority because youre fantastic little vw up or fiat 500 isint so green after all. I.m.o they should be encouging people to keep the cars on the road that are already here and been built, but they've even warped our thinking with that because you see it where I live next door has a new BMW 2 doors up then has to go one better and get a almost brand new one lol, and it's epidemic up and down the country.
[QUOTE=jamesy12345;770977]:lol: as I understood..mpg doesn't worry you so much cos you don't do so many miles. MPG doesn't figure highly in my choice of car either as I do very little miles. But running costs do - for example I avoid buying cars in higher tax brackets...before 2001 I prefer![/QUOTE] I do think similar on the tax, but mainly when it comes to post 2006 cars. I spotted a nice looking 2.4 s60 t5 auto, but its £480 a year on tax. Now i do think there's more to life than money, but i don't like being ripped off either and paying £200 more tax for a car, just because its 3 months newer, is being ripped off. [QUOTE=S40kieran;770979]I.m.o they should be encouging people to keep the cars on the road that are already here and been built, but they've even warped our thinking with that because you see it where I live next door has a new BMW 2 doors up then has to go one better and get a almost brand new one lol, and it's epidemic up and down the country.[/QUOTE] I'd say that, like many things people buy, most just seem to be obsessed with having newer or constantly trying to out do their friends or neighbours, its pretty sad really.
Liam I have a rover p6 v8 lol, 
It's 43 years old but needs some work I was using it up until a few years ago lol but I love it as much as my volvo, volvo is more practical to use but I love the rover when it's cold the v8 fires up and the whole car shakes and it's very early 1970's inside good fun lol
[QUOTE=Orca2;770782]If you are doing any serious mileage its almost worth starting a company just to farm your mileage through it [/QUOTE] Until you have an investigation but you also need a good accountant who also needs paid. The tax people are not stupid ,they know what goes on.
[QUOTE=Jimmie;770992]Until you have an investigation but you also need a good accountant who also needs paid. The tax people are not stupid ,they know what goes on.[/QUOTE] There is nothing illegal about offsetting business miles against contractor income it is perfectly legal. I own my own company and do massive miles on business I practically Never use the T5 otherwise I use the C70 at the weekends.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;770912]I don't think it is mate. [COLOR="#FF0000"]Life's to short[/COLOR] to worry about things like the essay you copied and pasted earlier.[/QUOTE] It would be shorter still if we all drove around in diesels.
[QUOTE=LiamT4;770971]Its just different priorities, money is low on my list. Btw £1000 is far from insignificant to me, its just that i think there's more to life.[/QUOTE] Money is very important to being happy. All these people who say it isn't are generally people who don't have a lot, so no no different. Without having a disposable income my kids couldn't do things that make them happy and in turn make me and the wife happy. My son is football mad and subsequently we have to pay a fair amount each month to cover his training, travel and season ticket etc for his local team. My daughter is expensive but I'm happy to pay for extra tuition fees for school exams, trips away with the school, prom dresses, money towards her first car etc etc. Money pays for our lovely family holiday every year. Money pays for my hobbie which is my car. If I just earn't enough to pay the basic bills like food, mortgage, electric, gas etc with nothing left over, life for me and my family would be miserable.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;771022]Money is very important to being happy. All these people who say it isn't are generally people who don't have a lot, so no no different. Without having a disposable income my kids couldn't do things that make them happy and in turn make me and the wife happy. My son is football mad and subsequently we have to pay a fair amount each month to cover his training, travel and season ticket etc for his local team. My daughter is expensive but I'm happy to pay for extra tuition fees for school exams, trips away with the school, prom dresses, money towards her first car etc etc. Money pays for our lovely family holiday every year. Money pays for my hobbie which is my car. If I just earn't enough to pay the basic bills like food, mortgage, electric, gas etc with nothing left over, life for me and my family would be miserable.[/QUOTE] I think that people who have loadsa money are the ones who say that money isn't important)) the kind of people who can afford to fix a modern diesel when it goes wrong....
Money is really important if you are at the bottom of the job heap, and there is no prospect of advancement. A lot of the " apprenticeships" the Tories are trumpeting about are crap jobs like kitchen porters. It makes a good sound bite , but it isnt a job with any future or way forwards. Its a tough tiring job with insociable hours and even full time these kids will struggle to pay the basics.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;771022]Money is very important to being happy. All these people who say it isn't are generally people who don't have a lot, so no no different. Without having a disposable income my kids couldn't do things that make them happy and in turn make me and the wife happy. My son is football mad and subsequently we have to pay a fair amount each month to cover his training, travel and season ticket etc for his local team. My daughter is expensive but I'm happy to pay for extra tuition fees for school exams, trips away with the school, prom dresses, money towards her first car etc etc. Money pays for our lovely family holiday every year. Money pays for my hobbie which is my car. If I just earn't enough to pay the basic bills like food, mortgage, electric, gas etc with nothing left over, life for me and my family would be miserable.[/QUOTE] Just because money is important to you being happy, that does not mean its the same for everybody. I thought everyone would prefer to be knowledgeable rather than ignorant, but i was wrong. Btw, i'm still waiting for you to show me what essay i supposedly copied and pasted.
[QUOTE=Orca2;771010]There is nothing illegal about offsetting business miles against contractor income it is perfectly legal. I own my own company and do massive miles on business I practically Never use the T5 otherwise I use the C70 at the weekends.[/QUOTE] I never said it was illegal as I know it isn't it was the bit about people setting up to claim it back. I still stand by my statement that the tax people are not stupid and know all the loopholes. I will be winding up my company shortly.lol
[QUOTE=LiamT4;771035]Just because money is important to you being happy, that does not mean its the same for everybody. I thought everyone would prefer to be knowledgeable rather than ignorant, but i was wrong. Btw, i'm still waiting for you to show me what essay i supposedly copied and pasted.[/QUOTE] It was me who was doing the copying and pasting, mainly to prove that I had done some research, as advised lol
[QUOTE=stutgart69;771038]It was me who was doing the copying and pasting, mainly to prove that I had done some research, as advised lol[/QUOTE] Yeah, i was just wondering if he would have the decency to admit he'd made a mistake or just keep ignoring it.
I think money helps but is not the be all and end all of happyness, I prefer having good friends and good health both for myself and my family over lots of money. You can have lots of money but still be misserible. I turned down a very well paid job once its was a promotion for the company i worked for. If had taken the Job roll i would have lost time with my wife and our new born son, and also had zero time to myself and hobbies. Best thing i ever did was turn that promotion down.
[QUOTE=LiamT4;771035]Just because money is important to you being happy, that does not mean its the same for everybody. I thought everyone would prefer to be knowledgeable rather than ignorant, but i was wrong. Btw, i'm still waiting for you to show me what essay i supposedly copied and pasted.[/QUOTE] I'm knowledgeable on many subjects, just not interested in fuel pollution, so why does that make me ignorant? Do you have a wife and kids? If you do how do you make them happy if money pays no part in it? I don't earn a lot of money, but I sure as hell wouldnt won't to be on benefits
[QUOTE=merc85;771040]I think money helps but is not the be all and end all of happyness, I prefer having good friends and good health both for myself and my family over lots of money. You can have lots of money but still be misserible. I turned down a very well paid job once its was a promotion for the company i worked for. If had taken the Job roll i would have lost time with my wife and our new born son, and also had zero time to myself and hobbies. Best thing i ever did was turn that promotion down.[/QUOTE] I would not deny that money can help people to enjoy life or that, obviously, it can bring much security that a job that pays sh*te wages cannot but for some people there is more to life.
[QUOTE=merc85;771040]I think money helps but is not the be all and end all of happyness, I prefer having good friends and good health both for myself and my family over lots of money. You can have lots of money but still be misserible. I turned down a very well paid job once its was a promotion for the company i worked for. If had taken the Job roll i would have lost time with my wife and our new born son, and also had zero time to myself and hobbies. Best thing i ever did was turn that promotion down.[/QUOTE] Totally agree mate, friends and family are very very important. I meant I wouldn't be happy if I only had enough to scrape by each month, you need enough to have money for hobbies and going out with friends for a drink etc etc without having to worry.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;771041]I'm knowledgeable on many subjects, just not interested in fuel pollution, so why does that make me ignorant? [/QUOTE] Because when i said this [QUOTE=LiamT4;770910]Just pointing out facts, nothing more. Knowledge is better than ignorance.[/QUOTE] You said this [QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;770912]I don't think it is mate. Life's to short to worry about things like the essay you copied and pasted earlier.[/QUOTE] If it was just a poor choice of words, just say and we can get past this misunderstanding. Maybe i should have made clear that when i'm talking about some not needing money to be happy, that i'm basing this on myself earning a certain amount and not needing more and i could take a drop and still enjoy life. Saying that, I will admit that if my income dropped below a certain amount then, yes, life would be more difficult.
It is trying to find that balance, and Family comes 1st imho A good reminder was then time i was at Great Ormond Street Hospital, our Son was in intensive care on life support, The guy sitting next to me in the waiting room was listening to his bank balence on his mobile phone which was 10's of thousands as i over heard, and his child was in a similar state of health to our sons. All the money in the world at that point in time couldnt have improved either of our childs outlook, thankfully the doctors and nurses managed to saved our boys life.
[QUOTE=LiamT4;771044]Because when i said this You said this If it was just a poor choice of words, just say and we can get past this misunderstanding. Maybe i should have made clear that when i'm talking about some not needing money to be happy, that i'm basing this on myself earning a certain amount and not needing more and i could take a drop and still enjoy life. Saying that, I will admit that if my income dropped below a certain amount then, yes, life would be more difficult.[/QUOTE] Liam, we all know what is written can be taken the wrong way. I think we have both misinterpreted what the other is trying to say:Handshake
I bloody love this forum, actual grown ups, good on you both,
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;771046]Liam, we all know what is written can be taken the wrong way. I think we have both misinterpreted what the other is trying to say:Handshake[/QUOTE] Fair enough :Handshake
[QUOTE=Orca2;771047]I bloody love this forum, actual grown ups, good on you both,[/QUOTE] I often disagree with people (understatement of the year! lol), i like debates, but i will always try to stick to the facts and not take/make things personal. I always say that just because people disagree, is shouldn't mean they can't get on with each other.
I'm skint fact lol
And hello everyone
[QUOTE=Orca2;771047]I bloody love this forum, actual grown ups, good on you both,[/QUOTE] Who are you calling a grown up, I'm only 13 :wow:
[QUOTE=smithy;771059]I'm skint fact lol[/QUOTE] I'm skint because all my money goes on paying for private medical care due to my poor lungs enhaling all the poisoness toxins given off by my diesel car lol
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;771061]Who are you calling a grown up, I'm only 13 :wow:[/QUOTE] You're bloody lucky mate I celebrated my 10th birthday yesterday I wish I was 13 lol
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;771061]Who are you calling a grown up, I'm only 13 :wow:[/QUOTE] Then you are to be commended young man, you show maturity beyond your tender years, you are a credit to your upbringing. Go to the top of the class and have a biscuit.
Hmm, interesting thread, it is good to hear different views on these matters. I can't particularly contribute much and I'm late to the party but I have a couple of points. Regarding pollution, someone said earlier that because in the grand scheme of things that the diesel car driver need not worry about pollution as there are masses of consumption of fossil fuels in a commercial sense is slightly missing the point? Surely it is best to reduce pollution however possible by any amount possible? I'm not for one moment suggesting people need to go out and buy a different, less polluting car as frankly you are going to do less environmental damage just sticking where you are with what you have than getting a new thing 'produced'. More, people need to consider more closely what they are buying which is mainly dictated by taxes, which by the sounds of it they've got all wrong the way to tax emissions. At the end of the day, the ultimate recycling is to never throw away :). That's my excuse for hoarding this or that and I'm sticking to it! :D Mind, after saying that above I have to openly admit to pollution being of little concern when choosing a car for myself as I too do little miles, about 6-8k a year maybe. I do choose to use the car as little as possible though so must care a bit ;). Mind the following might be another cause... Money though, imo is very important! It is difficult to enjoy life without it but then it is hardly the definition of happiness either! You do hear stories of Mr Normal winning the lottery then committing suicide due to being incompatible of adjusting oneself to the changes sudden wealth brings. I for one am unhappy with the financial situation I'm in but then neither do I suddenly want wealth, I know I couldn't cope with a change like that. 'Why are there suddenly so many more people in my life? Are they interested in me or more money?' - That I would struggle with. But, to get people into your life without money is also challenging... it's a viscous system but put simply money does matter.
You make a very good point Davey, the scrappage scheme was the least green policy I have ever seen, thousands of cars with years of life left in them bit the dust ,for no real reason Other than a bonanza for dealers. The scrappies were even barred from selling parts from most of them. The largest emissions associated with cars is during their manufacture , not from driving them . The less cars that have to be built the lower the emissions .
[QUOTE=Orca2;771068]You make a very good point Davey, the scrappage scheme was the least green policy I have ever seen, thousands of cars with years of life left in them bit the dust ,for no real reason Other than a bonanza for dealers. The scrappies were even barred from selling parts from most of them. The largest emissions associated with cars is during their manufacture , not from driving them . The less cars that have to be built the lower the emissions .[/QUOTE] Oh I hate to even think about the scrapped scheme, so many people being mugged off. The sort of 'savings' on offer were there to buyers without a px anyway. So many great metal lost. Still, beats the USA's 'Cash for clunkers' scheme. Similar but only accepting knackered cars so there were people deliberately destroying their cars so they could get a few $$$ off a new Chevrolet Whatsit, incredibly wasteful! Edit: Slight misunderstanding from my part there, cash for clunkers required dealers to disable engines by deliberately seizing them! So, those engines could never be used again or the cars 'illegally' exported.
Yeah that all sounds pretty green and sustainable . Incentivise people to destroy stuff that worked perfectly well then sell them brand new stuff to replace it all.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;771062]I'm skint because all my money goes on paying for private medical care due to my poor lungs enhaling all the poisoness toxins given off by my diesel car lol[/QUOTE] You may laugh Mike, but when I see Charlie wearing an oxygen mask in hospital because he has asthma, which will be worsened by particulates given off by diesel cars, I can't see the funny side of it.
I think it will be very interesting what the new government will have to do in the bigger city's with this problem. The newer Euro6 engines have only been around a year or so, It does seem odd to me this has just been to court and told to sort this out, Just after the trucks can now do 60 mph on dual carriageway up from 50 mph ?.
[QUOTE=stribo;771071]You may laugh Mike, but when I see Charlie wearing an oxygen mask in hospital because he has asthma, which will be worsened by particulates given off by diesel cars, I can't see the funny side of it.[/QUOTE] Steve, you can't just blame diesels for that. Asthma has been around a lot longer than mass produced diesels.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;771074]Steve, you can't just blame diesels for that. Asthma has been around a lot longer than mass produced diesels.[/QUOTE] I'm not blaming diesels for his asthma Mike, that's my fault (I had asthma when I was a kid, which he's obviously inherited) but diesel emissions, particulates specifically, will only make it worse.
[QUOTE=smithy;771059]I'm skint fact lol[/QUOTE] And the reason for that is?? ;) [QUOTE=smithy;771060]And hello everyone[/QUOTE] Hello :)
[QUOTE=stribo;771071]You may laugh Mike, but when I see Charlie wearing an oxygen mask in hospital because he has asthma, which will be worsened by particulates given off by diesel cars, I can't see the funny side of it.[/QUOTE] I sympathize with your sons Asthma condition bud, and its certainly not a laughing matter. However, do you really think that it is fair to start giving Diesel drivers a kicking just because some scientists have decided that Diesel is now suddenly worse for the environment than petrol? Remember, not so long ago, they were telling us the opposite! And how long before they change their mind again? Im not saying for one minute that I don't like petrols (I have a sportsbike after all!), but I resent to people insinuating that Im some sort of scumbag just because I can't afford to run a T5, and therefore have to put up with a Diesel.
[QUOTE=stutgart69;771078]I sympathize with your sons Asthma condition bud, and its certainly not a laughing matter. However, do you really think that it is fair to start giving Diesel drivers a kicking just because some scientists have decided that Diesel is now suddenly worse for the environment than petrol? Remember, not so long ago, they were telling us the opposite! And how long before they change their mind again? Im not saying for one minute that I don't like petrols (I have a sportsbike after all!), but I resent to people insinuating that Im some sort of scumbag just because I can't afford to run a T5, and therefore have to put up with a Diesel.[/QUOTE] Your missing the point, scientists have not suddenly decided anything, science shows that when it comes to certain things diesel is worse for our health. Its been known for a while now that this is the case. It was governments using co2 figures to base car tax on, that has persuaded millions of people to buy diesels. Nowhere on here i have seen anyone insinuating that people who drive diesels are scumbags. Asthma is good example, yes it has been around longer than diesel, but thats not the point and, as stribo has pointed out, its the particulates given off by diesel that can make mild asthma worse and can even make (in extreme cases) sever asthma, life changing. This is not an opinion, this is scientific fact.
[QUOTE=stutgart69;771078]I sympathize with your sons Asthma condition bud, and its certainly not a laughing matter. However, do you really think that it is fair to start giving Diesel drivers a kicking just because some scientists have decided that Diesel is now suddenly worse for the environment than petrol? Remember, not so long ago, they were telling us the opposite! And how long before they change their mind again? Im not saying for one minute that I don't like petrols (I have a sportsbike after all!), but I resent to people insinuating that Im some sort of scumbag just because I can't afford to run a T5, and therefore have to put up with a Diesel.[/QUOTE] Your missing the point, scientists have not suddenly decided anything, science shows that when it comes to certain things diesel is worse for our health. Its been known for a while now that this is the case. It was governments using co2 figures to base car tax on, that has persuaded millions of people to buy diesels. Nowhere on here i have seen anyone insinuating that people who drive diesels are scumbags. Asthma is good example, yes it has been around longer than diesel, but thats not the point and, as stribo has pointed out, its the particulates given off by diesel that can make mild asthma worse and can even make (in extreme cases) sever asthma, life changing. This is not an opinion, this is scientific fact.
The government are £££££, they have persuaded millions of people to buy diesel cars over the last several years and changed the face of the market through their ridiculous taxation system. How many new cars that get sold these days are petrol engines? The benefits of diesel have been exaggerated. Most people do not do enough miles to really benefit from a diesel.
[QUOTE=LiamT4;771079]Your missing the point, scientists have not suddenly decided anything, science shows that when it comes to certain things diesel is worse for our health. [/QUOTE] That IS the point, right there- "Certain things". What about the other things? The things where petrol is worse than diesel? Its all swings and roundabouts if you ask me.
Too many 0 tax cars out so lets ban them as the government not getting money out of this.There was a steam engine bus test in London a few years ago which proved to be good but never went into production,why?
[QUOTE=stutgart69;771085]That IS the point, right there- "Certain things". What about the other things? The things where petrol is worse than diesel? Its all swings and roundabouts if you ask me.[/QUOTE] I should have put that clearer, when it comes to human health, diesel is worse than petrol. If you live in an area that has busy traffic, then its the diesel fumes that will be causing the most damage to your health. Diesel particulates are in the top category when it comes to cancer, they are classed as "definite causes of cancer". The information is out there and if you have a look into diesel particulates then you will see exactly why it is worse for our health.
[QUOTE=Kingsford G;771086]Too many 0 tax cars out so lets ban them as the government not getting money out of this.There was a steam engine bus test in London a few years ago which proved to be good but never went into production,why?[/QUOTE] The problem I have with such a variable taxation rate is that it enables the government to shift the goal posts whenever they want. Not only that but the level of "emissions" part is very misleading. Most of these hybrid cars running around are more complicated than a Range Rover to manufacture.
[QUOTE=LiamT4;771093]I should have put that clearer, when it comes to human health, diesel is worse than petrol. If you live in an area that has busy traffic, then its the diesel fumes that will be causing the most damage to your health. Diesel particulates are in the top category when it comes to cancer, they are classed as "definite causes of cancer". The information is out there and if you have a look into diesel particulates then you will see exactly why it is worse for our health.[/QUOTE] Diesel exhausts are now in the same group as carcinogens ranging from wood chippings to plutonium and sunlight to alcohol.
[QUOTE=LiamT4;771093]I should have put that clearer, when it comes to human health, diesel is worse than petrol. If you live in an area that has busy traffic, then its the diesel fumes that will be causing the most damage to your health. Diesel particulates are in the top category when it comes to cancer, they are classed as "definite causes of cancer". The information is out there and if you have a look into diesel particulates then you will see exactly why it is worse for our health.[/QUOTE] I get where you are coming from Liam, but what it doesn't tell you is just how much of it that you need to be exposed to before you get cancer. Remember, the sun can cause cancer too! But I'm sure that you would happily go away to Spain tomorrow :)
[QUOTE=stutgart69;771101]I get where you are coming from Liam, but what it doesn't tell you is just how much of it that you need to be exposed to before you get cancer. [COLOR="#FF0000"]Remember, the sun can cause cancer too! But I'm sure that you would happily go away to Spain tomorrow[/COLOR] :)[/QUOTE] To be fair, that's not really a valid comparison, people choose whether to expose themselves to the sun or not, and for how long. Being exposed to particulates isn't a choice, everyone in the developed world is exposed to them like it or not. I wouldn't for a moment tell people what they should, or shouldn't drive, but (some) people should be aware of what pollution their cars are causing, rather than take the head in the sand approach. (I include hybrid car owners in this, as the pollution that's caused producing their cars far outweighs any savings in CO2 their cars produce.)
[QUOTE=stribo;771102]To be fair, that's not really a valid comparison, people choose whether to expose themselves to the sun or not, and for how long. Being exposed to particulates isn't a choice, everyone in the developed world is exposed to them like it or not. I wouldn't for a moment tell people what they should, or shouldn't drive, but (some) people should be aware of what pollution their cars are causing, rather than take the head in the sand approach. (I include hybrid car owners in this, as the pollution that's caused producing their cars far outweighs any savings in CO2 their cars produce.)[/QUOTE] This whole thread has certainly opened my eyes, and my 2003 Alfa 156 JTD is a very dirty diesel. I assume that cos it passes it's MOT that the emissions are where they need to be, but if I knew for sure that it's damaging peep's health, then it'd be gone tomorrow. Better start looking for another car..............lol.
If everyone cycled everywhere that would help ;) also just having one car would half the amount of pollution put out by people
[QUOTE=merc85;771112]If everyone cycled everywhere that would help ;) also just having one car would half the amount of pollution put out by people[/QUOTE] True, but we have 5 road going cars, and still put out less particulates than your Merc. ;)
how about the pollution making your 5 cars in the 1st place??
[QUOTE=merc85;771117]how about the pollution making your 5 cars in the 1st place??[/QUOTE] That's totally irrelevant, we didn't buy any of the cars new, in fact, we kept the V70R on the road when it could have been scrapped, so by saving a car, we've saved a new one having to be built. ;)
[QUOTE=merc85;771112]If everyone cycled everywhere that would help ;) also just having one car would half the amount of pollution put out by people[/QUOTE] You'll be voting Green then? lol! Barley makes any odds how many cars you have. You'll still do the same amount of miles on the road, whether it's split between 5 cars or just 1, no?
Right, so please tell me in my case what is best for emissions and everybody's health doing my 25k miles a year. I have my C70 T5, V70 R and 9-5 Aero in petrols, and my 156 JTD in oil burners. For my pocket obviously the JTD is best, but would I cause less pollution with my petrols doing half the mpg?
I read somewhere that two of the most damagIng things you can do to the planet are keeping a dog and having a third child. Pretty much everything has unforeseen environmental consequences. Running old cars However seems to make sense. It makes you wonder why there is no real impetus or tax incentive to ale cars more durable. Only lip service is paid . The Prius for example is one of the most polluting vehicles ever invented once you factor in all the green costs of its manufacture.
[QUOTE=foammanmark;771123]Right, so please tell me in my case what is best for emissions and everybody's health doing my 25k miles a year. I have my C70 T5, V70 R and 9-5 Aero in petrols, and my 156 JTD in oil burners. For my pocket obviously the JTD is best, but would I cause less pollution with my petrols doing half the mpg?[/QUOTE] Any diesel is going to be worse than any petrol when it comes to particulates, which is what affects health.
See as petrol prices are now, I'm quite happy using my petrol cars, but when fuel goes up again I will be straight back in my diesel.
[QUOTE=S70T5Chris;771122]You'll be voting Green then? lol! Barley makes any odds how many cars you have. You'll still do the same amount of miles on the road, whether it's split between 5 cars or just 1, no?[/QUOTE] Yes gonna be sacking off the old oil burner and cycling everywhere, Should be able to double my mileage from 3,500 per year to 7k on the bike if i did that. Also gonna tell the wife to get rid of her cashqui lol and making them all walk the 14 miles to school seeing as the School bus is diesel ;)
My car gets used 99% of the time for pleasure so if we had only one car we would save 8k miles a year. so using less cars can work ;)
[QUOTE=stribo;771119]That's totally irrelevant, we didn't buy any of the cars new, in fact, we kept the V70R on the road when it could have been scrapped, so by saving a car, we've saved a new one having to be built. ;)[/QUOTE] no its not, if everyone had only one car per household we wouldnt need as many cars.
[QUOTE=merc85;771130]Yes gonna be sacking off the old oil burner and cycling everywhere, Should be able to double my mileage from 3,500 per year to 7k on the bike if i did that. Also gonna tell the wife to get rid of her cashqui lol and making them all walk the 14 miles to school seeing as the School bus is diesel ;)[/QUOTE] Brilliant. So if you get rid of a car, that means I can get another one right? :lol:
[QUOTE=S70T5Chris;771134]Brilliant. So if you get rid of a car, that means I can get another one right? :lol:[/QUOTE] lol havent you got enough pmsl ;)
[QUOTE=merc85;771133]no its not, if everyone had only one car per household we wouldnt need as many cars.[/QUOTE] We have 5 cars as well, with the newest being a 53 plate. The Alfa's are scrapyard dodgers and then there are the 2 Volvos and the Saab. The C70 had been for sale for a while and was a potential breaker, which we saved. Is saving a car from the breakers 'green' or not?
[QUOTE=merc85;771133]no its not, if everyone had only one car per household we wouldnt need as many cars.[/QUOTE] Of course it is, none of our cars are new, so it doesn't matter how many we have, as they're all cars that have been built for someone else.
[QUOTE=foammanmark;771136]We have 5 cars as well, with the newest being a 53 plate. The Alfa's are scrapyard dodgers and then there are the 2 Volvos and the Saab. The C70 had been for sale for a while and was a potential breaker, which we saved. Is saving a car from the breakers 'green' or not?[/QUOTE] I would say yes, the longer a car's one the road, the longer it's offsetting the pollution created producing it.
[QUOTE=stribo;771137]Of course it is, none of our cars are new, so it doesn't matter how many we have, as they're all cars that have been built for someone else.[/QUOTE] if everyone had only 1 car per house hold ONLY! regarless of who they were built for in this country there wouldnt be as much pollution. The car company's would probably go out of business tho lol
[QUOTE=merc85;771140]if everyone had only 1 car per house hold ONLY! regarless of who they were built for in this country there wouldnt be as much pollution. The car company's would probably go out of business tho lol[/QUOTE] And if diesel cars were banned altogether, there would be less particulates. :D
[QUOTE=stribo;771141]And if diesel cars were banned altogether, there would be less particulates. :D[/QUOTE] never said there wouldnt. followed by the banning of Petrol car's too,
[QUOTE=merc85;771133]no its not, if everyone had only one car per household we wouldnt need as many cars.[/QUOTE] And millions of jobs would be gone. And your customer base would be shrunk, no? It's easy to be idealistic, but what looks like an ideal on the face of it will always have negative consequences. It's just a case of getting an even balance. Going back to the diesel thing... The whole thing has just been a very clever ploy by the government(s) using the umbrella (and worlds biggest business) of the environment to hook everyone on the diesel band wagon. And now they've convinced everyone diesel was the way to go with it's high fuel efficiency and lower road tax brackets, they're gonna ££££ you for it! Seen it coming for years.
Sod watching the TV, I'm watching this thread tonight. I think we have to agree that we all want the best for ourselves, fellow humans and our pockets, so more needs to be researched on this matter but it's certainly made me think.
[QUOTE=S70T5Chris;771144]And millions of jobs would be gone. And your customer base would be shrunk, no? yes it would. ive never said id support the idea
[QUOTE=foammanmark;771146]Sod watching the TV, I'm watching this thread tonight. I think we have to agree that we all want the best for ourselves, fellow humans and our pockets, so more needs to be researched on this matter but it's certainly made me think.[/QUOTE] Whatever we do there's going to be an environmental impact, from brushing your teeth ( producing the plastic in your tooth brush isn't pollution free) to driving a 5L V10 Audi Q7, it's just how much impact one is prepared to accept for their lifestyle.
[QUOTE=S70T5Chris;771144]And millions of jobs would be gone. And your customer base would be shrunk, no? It's easy to be idealistic, but what looks like an ideal on the face of it will always have negative consequences. It's just a case of getting an even balance. Going back to the diesel thing... The whole thing has just been a very clever ploy by the government(s) using the umbrella (and worlds biggest business) of the environment to hook everyone on the diesel band wagon. And now they've convinced everyone diesel was the way to go with it's high fuel efficiency and lower road tax brackets, they're gonna ££££ you for it! Seen it coming for years.[/QUOTE] All the problems with diesel particulates have been known about for years, long before they changed taxes to drive everyone towards diesels. Successive governments use the environmental argument to stage tax raids on us whilst telling us its for our own good. The scrappage scheme was exactly the same thing, it made no green sense whatsoever , all it did was drive new car sales and production , generating lots of nice tax revenue.
[QUOTE=stribo;771139]I would say yes, the longer a car's one the road, the longer it's offsetting the pollution created producing it.[/QUOTE] That's great then. I love our older cars cos they break the mould when out on the road today. I can't tell a Kia from an Astra, from a Focus etc. cos they just all look so similar(and boring), except the Alfas I have to add!!
I have P2 v70 T5 , and for the first time ever , the only car I would swap for is an older one, I dont want a P3 I want an 850,
[QUOTE=Orca2;771188]I have P2 v70 T5 , and for the first time ever , the only car I would swap for is an older one, I dont want a P3 I want an 850,[/QUOTE] I started in Volvos with a p2 V70 SE 2.4(170), then a p2 V70 SE D5, but I kept looking at the older models and really liked them. I've now had 3 p1 V70's and the 854 T-5R, and I would definitely say that older is better!!
I parked next to an 850 T5 the other day , it was in that dark green metallic colour , it had the little tailgate spoiler, and it looked a lot nicer than mine ever will. Maybe I am just getting old . Lol
You've got to remember folks, recycling/scrapping/whatever creates loads of pollution too so lets keep the old cars running ;)
[QUOTE=AcidicDavey;771192]You've got to remember folks, recycling/scrapping/whatever creates loads of pollution too so lets keep the old cars running ;)[/QUOTE] But the quality of them as well. Since I've got Nautic back, I just love shutting the doors cos the sound is pure quality.
As someone said a few posts back.. New cars all look the bleedin same , and you just know the build quality is crapola. I saw a Ka that had run into the back of a v 70 on the M8 last year, the volvo had a few scratches on his rear bumper, the Ka was in a thousand bits all over the road.
I said that I can't tell a Kia from a Ford, from a Vauxhall etc. However, when I see an Alfa, I can tell that apart from the rest, from the front anyway. Volvos are very strong, but touch wood quickly, I haven't been in an accident in one.
I love Alfa Brera's unfortunately they dissolve like a sugar cube in hot coffee up here, too much salt on the roads and too much wet weather.
[QUOTE=Orca2;771200]I love Alfa Brera's unfortunately they dissolve like a sugar cube in hot coffee up here, too much salt on the roads and too much wet weather.[/QUOTE]
One that I borrowed when my 156 went for new rear shocks. A black car vinyl wrapped in white, but so beautiful.
The styling is amazing , they look fast just sitting at the side of the road, and there is no angle from which they look anything but beautiful. And pictures dont do them justice they are soo much better in the flesh. Alfa really stand out .
[QUOTE=Orca2;771210]The styling is amazing , they look fast just sitting at the side of the road, and there is no angle from which they look anything but beautiful. And pictures dont do them justice they are soo much better in the flesh. Alfa really stand out .[/QUOTE] The car in the pic is a 2.2JTS with 205k on the clock. My wife wanted me to buy that and have a new engine fitted rather than buying my V70 R back. Obviously I won.............
Its nice but not as cool as a v70 r , and it sure as hell wouldnt last as well.
[QUOTE=Orca2;771195]As someone said a few posts back.. New cars all look the bleedin same , and you just know the build quality is crapola. d.[/QUOTE] Not sure what modern cars you have had, but my old 2007 Audi was beautifully put together and very solid. Our 2013 mk7 Golf is even better built. Doors shut with a lovely clunk, very very quiet and all the switches feel solid. The 3 Volvos I had were very well built but the new ones aren't anywhere near as good. Before opting for the Golf we test drove the new V40 and it was okay but not a patch on the German offerings.
[QUOTE=Orca2;771200]I love Alfa Brera's unfortunately they dissolve like a sugar cube in hot coffee up here, too much salt on the roads and too much wet weather.[/QUOTE] They do look lovely, but even the 3.2 Prodrive edition is bloody slow, a real shame really.
Last car I had that had any build quality was a 928 s, it was built , the electrics were a pain in the ass , and really hard to diagnose and fix, the suspension was superb . The v70 is great for Scotland it just doesnt rust... I have had a succession of crap fords and vauxhalls and Fiats before the Volvos, bloody school fees have had all my car money for years, but next year the sprog finishes school....... Freedom and real car madness will ensue! I can see that your BMW is your pride and joy , and it looks great too, they just don't float my boat, I had a 325i tourer for a while , and it was nice and went like ££££ off a shiny shovel , but I just didn't love it, it was a wee but soulless.
Please lets not talk Alfas chaps, I'm easily excited :) There was a Brera at our local car auction yesterday, the crowd around it as it drove through was unbelievable, no other car has had that effect while I've been there! Went for £3675 for an 06 JTD with about 100K on clocks and about 20 warning lights on the dash!
[QUOTE=Orca2;771200]I love Alfa Brera's unfortunately they dissolve like a sugar cube in hot coffee up here, too much salt on the roads and too much wet weather.[/QUOTE] The wife had an Alfa Spider a while back, bloody nice to drive it was too. However, we left it off the road for a year cause it needed some things done to it that we couldn't afford at that time, by the time I went back to it there was nothing left ! It had disolved into a puddle of rust!
What ages was the Spider stutgart?
[QUOTE=AcidicDavey;771230]What ages was the Spider stutgart?[/QUOTE] It was a P reg Dave 1996 . Was in excellent nick though before it was laid up
Poor car, those 916s are very resistant to rust in my experience (down here anyway!). Love um, could do with another GTV, mine was a 99 and rust free :P
The guy at the Alfa independent garage where we serviced it said that it was the best example of that age that he had seen . Couple of years later it was rusted scrap :-(
Italian motors dont last long in Scotland , they dont like water.
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;771221]Not sure what modern cars you have had, but my old 2007 Audi was beautifully put together and very solid. Our 2013 mk7 Golf is even better built. Doors shut with a lovely clunk, very very quiet and all the switches feel solid. The 3 Volvos I had were very well built but the new ones aren't anywhere near as good. Before opting for the Golf we test drove the new V40 and it was okay but not a patch on the German offerings.[/QUOTE] There was a definite drop in build quality going from the 850 to the V70 and onwards from there. I was honestly amazed by the build quality of the 850 and my car before that was a 2007 audi. That really put it into perspective for me how good the older Volvos were. Audi is comparatively good build quality against today's competition but it is only because the cars now are not built to last.
That's interesting . I always did think that the 850 R was cooler looking than the V70, but I assumed that the the newer one would be better and more reliable. Wrong again it seems.
[QUOTE=Orca2;771200]I love Alfa Brera's unfortunately they dissolve like a sugar cube in hot coffee up here, too much salt on the roads and too much wet weather.[/QUOTE] The one in the pic had a private reg on it as well, beginning with T5 ---, which I tried to buy for my C70, but the previous owner decided to keep it....... You can just about see it on the pic.
How off topic can we go lol
Had I mentioned I am a founding member of the holy church Of The Lard
[QUOTE=MIKESC70T5;771269]How off topic can we go lol[/QUOTE] I really like Cheese. My favourite is a really strong cheddar. What's everyone else's?
It's raining here. I blame The French.
Back on topic, and I now seem to be driving my petrols a lot more than I was. Not because of this thread, just with getting the R back and needing to use the Saab for the space for the Scotland trip, the JTD is currently redundant. This coming week I have to use the Saab again as I have 2 colleagues with me and with their luggage etc. the Alfa isn't really big enough. Accumulating V-Power points at some rate anyway.
I decided to save the world today by leaving the D5 on the drive and taking the Yaris into Manchester.....tbh I wish I hadn't lol
Well I did my bit for world conservation last night, by taking the Yamaha to the stock car racing, instead of the D5. This transpired to be one of the worst decision of my life! By the time I got back home, my fingers were so cold that I had to stand with them under my arm for about 5 minutes before I could even open the shed door! Personally, I blame you lot, for making me feel guilty about using my lovely warm, comfy diesel Volvo with its heated seats!
[QUOTE=stutgart69;771303]Well I did my bit for world conservation last night, by taking the Yamaha to the stock car racing, instead of the D5. This transpired to be one of the worst decision of my life! By the time I got back home, my fingers were so cold that I had to stand with them under my arm for about 5 minutes before I could even open the shed door! [COLOR="#FF0000"]Personally, I blame you lot, for making me feel guilty about using my lovely warm, comfy diesel Volvo with its heated seats![/COLOR][/QUOTE] Blame yourself for buying a lovely warm, comfy Volvo with its heated seats, and a diesel engine, there are plenty of petrol variants out there. :P
I feel for you Stoots it was freezing the other night. I'mall for saving the Planet bUt I wouldn't be risking frostbite in me bits to do it.
I think we need to talk more about the price of fuel. At the moment with V-Power petrol down at £1.229 from £1.459 plus, the difference to me is 3-4p/mile which doesn't sound much, but is enough to make me jump back in my diesel when it's at the higher rate. If it stayed at today's rate then I would have shut of my Alfa tomorrow, but I can't because the prices will go back to previous levels at some stage. On 2,000-2,500 miles/month, I have to save the money.
Back in the news again. http://news.sky.com/story/1591324/mps-call-for-diesel-car-scrappage-scheme
I hope they give me about £4k for mine & I will buy a v70 2.4 t5 & stick it on gas. Lol
I'll be happy with £2k for mine under the scrappage scheme.... just got to find the £20k for a new one to qualify lol