Angle gear.
Posts
Post 790189 by stribo on 2015-11-07 07:40:24
Does anyone know if the angle gear is the same in a S60R, and a XC90 2.5T, both manual? My thinking is, if they're the same, I might buy a spare, and recondition it, just in case.
Post 790190 by Santa on 2015-11-07 07:57:10
I believe it is the same as the XC90 (collar gears are the same so cant image the angle gear being different).
Post 790197 by Dangerous Dave on 2015-11-07 09:59:46
Best thing to do is get underneath and have a look. Some angle gears had a chain drive unit attached, there are that many different versions. They did a strengthened version too.
Post 790201 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-07 12:07:57
also it will require the same drive ratio as the rear axle, if you are building it as a swap in unit should anything go wrong with the existing unit iirc
Post 790203 by stribo on 2015-11-07 12:44:11
Are they not all 1:1 ratio?
Post 790205 by Ettienne on 2015-11-07 12:47:52
I've got a spare one in the workshop I'll check later if your wanting to know
Post 790208 by stribo on 2015-11-07 13:03:23
[QUOTE=Ettienne;790205]I've got a spare one in the workshop I'll check later if your wanting to know[/QUOTE]
Yes please mate.
Post 790234 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-07 16:53:45
[QUOTE=stribo;790203]Are they not all 1:1 ratio?[/QUOTE]
yes in theory when with the matching rear axle. so if for example the rear axle is 3.31:1 then the angle gear needs to match it but in reverse so 1 input turn gives 3.31 output to rear diff, thus in reality at the angle gear input 1 turn will give turn a the rear axle so a theoretical 1:1 overall. If I'm wrong in this thinking please shoot me now, but that is how I understand it, Dangerous Dave will be along in a minute if I'm wrong with a proper explaination
Post 790252 by Dangerous Dave on 2015-11-07 21:02:48
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;790234]yes in theory when with the matching rear axle. so if for example the rear axle is 3.31:1 then the angle gear needs to match it but in reverse so 1 input turn gives 3.31 output to rear diff, thus in reality at the angle gear input 1 turn will give turn a the rear axle so a theoretical 1:1 overall. If I'm wrong in this thinking please shoot me now, but that is how I understand it, Dangerous Dave will be along in a minute if I'm wrong with a proper explaination[/QUOTE]
LOL dude :D Sounds right to me
Post 790253 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-07 21:10:41
[QUOTE=Dangerous Dave;790252]LOL dude :D Sounds right to me[/QUOTE]
Thank you master, I must be learning volvo awds right then, these awd's are a minefield tbh and no real hard info on them that I have found to date
Post 790263 by Ettienne on 2015-11-07 22:04:43
[QUOTE=stribo;790208]Yes please mate.[/QUOTE]
I forgot and it's a bit dark now lol.
I thought they were 1:1 and box matched the rear diff.
Can check in the morning now.
Post 790267 by stribo on 2015-11-07 22:29:25
My understanding is, the front and rear diff are matched, and the angle gear is 1:1, just to turn the transverse output from the gearbox, to the longitudinal drive to the propshaft.
Post 790273 by Dangerous Dave on 2015-11-07 22:59:52
[QUOTE=Ettienne;790263]I forgot and it's a bit dark now lol.
I thought they were 1:1 and box matched the rear diff.
Can check in the morning now.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=stribo;790267]My understanding is, the front and rear diff are matched, and the angle gear is 1:1, just to turn the transverse output from the gearbox, to the longitudinal drive to the propshaft.[/QUOTE]
Nope, fraid not.
Early ones were 3.31:1 to match the final drive ratio of the diff (which was inherited/modded from the 900 series). If you check my build thread (in my sig) I've got my angle gear dismantled and you can see the difference in the gears.
Think the later ones were changed to 2.78:1 (I'll have to dig out the data to check that and what year they changed)
The front diff works seperately to the rear diff, think of it as the angle gear is added (bodged on LOL) to the drivetrain after the front diff, so you need an overall 1:1 ratio through the angle gear and rear diff.
Bloody mind flock :)
Post 790274 by Ettienne on 2015-11-07 23:00:00
If your having a spare, just buy a good one and weld the sleeve.
Mines very low miles 38k from a p2 2003 but shaft is worn even at low miles, but otherwise perfect, I'll weld a new sleeve on and keep it as a spare, not that it fits my v70r
Post 790276 by Dangerous Dave on 2015-11-07 23:03:18
[QUOTE=Harvey;790270]Think this link shows what goes on inside it.
http://forums.swedespeed.com/showthread.php?205157-Angle-gear-rebuild-amp-research-about-the-reason-for-failure[/QUOTE]
That one is a later model with different/stronger bracing cast into the casing compared to the early ones
This is what happened to Husseins (lookforjoe from VS) looks like an earlier model of angle gear
And the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiyZvgbAElw
Post 790278 by Dangerous Dave on 2015-11-07 23:09:16
[QUOTE=Ettienne;790274]If your having a spare, just buy a good one and weld the sleeve.
Mines very low miles 38k from a p2 2003 but shaft is worn even at low miles, but otherwise perfect, I'll weld a new sleeve on and keep it as a spare, not that it fits my v70r[/QUOTE]
Was thinking about doing this to mine but the problem is that it might wear the gearbox splines more which is about the same amount of cost to replace :(
Post 790280 by Ettienne on 2015-11-07 23:09:54
[QUOTE=Dangerous Dave;790276]That one is a later model with different/stronger bracing cast into the casing compared to the early ones
This is what happened to Husseins (lookforjoe from VS) looks like an earlier model of angle gear
Had about 500 odd bhp didn't? Not surprised it did go, I know they break if launched lots but I'm guessing his power upgrades didn't help.
Post 790282 by Dangerous Dave on 2015-11-07 23:20:45
[QUOTE=Ettienne;790280]Had about 500 odd bhp didn't? Not surprised it did go, I know they break if launched lots but I'm guessing his power upgrades didn't help.[/QUOTE]
Looking at his videos at that time I think it had a 19t and was running about 280whp. It was launched hard by the looks of it :D It's completely different now, he's modded it loads
Post 790291 by stribo on 2015-11-08 00:06:45
Our S60R has been launched hard many times, I think the failures people have suffered are because, they don't realise they weep oil, and they run them dry, as they don't keep them topped up.
Post 790295 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-08 01:34:42
[QUOTE=stribo;790267]My understanding is, the front and rear diff are matched, and the angle gear is 1:1, just to turn the transverse output from the gearbox, to the longitudinal drive to the propshaft.[/QUOTE]
nope the front diff makes no real difference to what happens at the rear (they still work in sync with each other), this thinking is what has kept my v70r awd off the road for so long as I got it into my head that the box I bought didn't match the rear diff, but in the end that makes no difference as long as the angle gear and rear diff are matched......kicking myself as she could have been back on the road ages ago.......:buttkick:
Post 790298 by stribo on 2015-11-08 02:48:31
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;790295[COLOR="#FF0000"]]nope the front diff makes no real difference to what happens at the rear [/COLOR](they still work in sync with each other), this thinking is what has kept my v70r awd off the road for so long as I got it into my head that the box I bought didn't match the rear diff, but in the end that makes no difference as long as the angle gear and rear diff are matched......kicking myself as she could have been back on the road ages ago.......:buttkick:[/QUOTE]
I appreciate that, what I meant was I thought the front and rear diffs were both the same ratio, therefore the angle gear only needed to be 1:1.
Post 790299 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-08 02:54:05
[QUOTE=stribo;790298]I appreciate that, what I meant was I thought the front and rear diffs were both the same ratio, therefore the angle gear only needed to be 1:1.[/QUOTE]
nope that is where i went wrong, front gearbox can be any you fancy, but angle gear and rear diff ratios have to match...simples when put like that...took me a while to get my head around it, thus why the V70R awd got put on the back burner for so long, but will be returning in 2016 sporting a manual six speed awd box
Post 790311 by stribo on 2015-11-08 10:16:24
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;790299]nope that is where i went wrong, front gearbox can be any you fancy, but angle gear and rear diff ratios have to match...simples when put like that...took me a while to get my head around it, thus why the V70R awd got put on the back burner for so long, but will be returning in 2016 sporting a manual six speed awd box[/QUOTE]
So, with that being the case, I need to find out if the front and rear diff on the XC90 are the same ratio as the S60R.
Post 790346 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-08 19:09:41
[QUOTE=stribo;790311]So, with that being the case, I need to find out if the front and rear diff on the XC90 are the same ratio as the S60R.[/QUOTE]
no just whether the rear axle ratios are the same
Post 790352 by Ettienne on 2015-11-08 19:58:12
How do the ratios compare on the xc90 to s60, should give you a rough idea.
However won't the xc90 have a larger rolling tyre radius, so if they're geared similar on the tacho, there probably different lol
Post 790359 by Dangerous Dave on 2015-11-08 22:04:17
Had a look through some volvo tech stuff but can't find the ratios, they hide it really well :( Will keep digging...
Post 790364 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-08 22:31:05
[QUOTE=Ettienne;790352]How do the ratios compare on the xc90 to s60, should give you a rough idea.
However won't the xc90 have a larger rolling tyre radius, so if they're geared similar on the tacho, there probably different lol[/QUOTE]
final drives are final drives regardless of what tyres you fit to them, if the rear axles of steve's awds have the same ratio then they share the same angle gear unit, if they differ in rear axle ratio's he will need to keep a matching ratio angle gear unit for both cars for his 'just swap' plan
Post 790394 by Ettienne on 2015-11-09 15:35:23
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;790364]final drives are final drives regardless of what tyres you fit to them, if the rear axles of steve's awds have the same ratio then they share the same angle gear unit, if they differ in rear axle ratio's he will need to keep a matching ratio angle gear unit for both cars for his 'just swap' plan[/QUOTE]
Agreed ade, I was just thinking that his xc90 for example if it's 2,000 rpm at 60 and his s60r is the same, would it not point to different final drives if the xc90 had a larger rolling radius. (If that makes sense)
I remember looking at axles etc when I was going to manual convert the laser I seem to remember the xc90 was different and ratio of 3.31, 3.66 and 4.3 stick in my mind.
Post 790398 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-09 15:59:55
[QUOTE=Ettienne;790394]Agreed ade, I was just thinking that his xc90 for example if it's 2,000 rpm at 60 and his s60r is the same, would it not point to different final drives if the xc90 had a larger rolling radius. (If that makes sense)
I remember looking at axles etc when I was going to manual convert the laser I seem to remember the xc90 was different and ratio of 3.31, 3.66 and 4.3 stick in my mind.[/QUOTE]
yep see what your saying mate, different engine sizes / fuels etc will most probably determine different rear axle ratio's, I doubt that Steve's vehicles have the same angle gear ratio ( he's lucky if he has ) and then he'd still need to find a matching one to refurb, not difficult but it may be a bit of time before what he needs comes up at a sensible price.
Post 790400 by stribo on 2015-11-09 16:13:51
Maybe I'll just shelve the plan. Lol
Post 790403 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-09 16:27:14
[QUOTE=stribo;790400]Maybe I'll just shelve the plan. Lol[/QUOTE]
do you understand how it works now, took me a while to get my head around what is relatively simple really was just muddled by final drive ratio's of the rear diff and gearbox which really have no influence on each other as the cars FD is gearbox governed. Might be worth noting what rear diff ratio's / angle gear unit part no's and just watch for when they come up.
Post 790420 by stribo on 2015-11-09 19:26:57
Yeah, I understand how it works now, just seems like a lot of faff. lol
Post 790427 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-09 20:21:42
[QUOTE=stribo;790420]Yeah, I understand how it works now, just seems like a lot of faff. lol[/QUOTE]
yep these awd's are......lol :)
Post 790431 by stribo on 2015-11-09 20:38:31
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;790427]yep these awd's are......lol :)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, and who thought a foot operated parking brake was a good idea in a manual car? :slap:
Post 790433 by MoleT-5R on 2015-11-09 20:41:43
[QUOTE=stribo;790431]Yeah, and who thought a foot operated parking brake was a good idea in a manual car? :slap:[/QUOTE]
stick with the 850's / early c/s/v70's save a lot of headaches.....lol
Post 790450 by stribo on 2015-11-09 22:14:57
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;790433]stick with the 850's / early c/s/v70's save a lot of headaches.....lol[/QUOTE]
None of the above will seat 7, and still have boot space.