Claymores ME 4.4 Mapping thread.
Posts
Post 794752 by claymore on 2016-01-10 14:09:33
Rather than mess up the mail build thread, I thought I'd start a new one for this.
I know absolutely nothing about 4.4 mapping, So I'll tell you what I have and what I would like to be able to do.
At the moment I have a TT USB me 4.3 on the front engine 9which I can live map quite happily) and a rica 304 on the back engine, I now have two me4.4 ecu's, both with a good gt30 turbo map on them.
What will be the simplest way to live map these ecu's, I would be happy to carry on mapping with the TT USB if there was some way of transferring the saved files to the new ecu's, but I'm told that won't be possible, so is Ostrich the way to go?
Post 794753 by Dream3r on 2016-01-10 14:22:42
Ostrich i'd say
Post 794755 by MoleT-5R on 2016-01-10 14:27:13
seeing as you are able to read your tt ecu's you could possibly print dump the relavent tables out and recreate those tables in tunerpro rt and then flash your maps onto your 4.4 ecus. I would read them both first and save there existing files first though or use another 4.4 that you don't need the original map from....just an idea not done it myself, but I don't see why it couldn't work, might be a bit time consuming and someone may have an easier way.
Post 794756 by Dream3r on 2016-01-10 14:41:45
or transplant the moates from TT?
Post 794757 by claymore on 2016-01-10 14:42:51
At the moment, I don't even know how to read one of these ecu's, I need a simple step by step guide of what is needed, (i.e vag-com cable? , tuner pro? ) and exactly how to read and understand them.
Post 794758 by MoleT-5R on 2016-01-10 14:54:53
[QUOTE=claymore;794757]At the moment, I don't even know how to read one of these ecu's, I need a simple step by step guide of what is needed, (i.e vag-com cable? , tuner pro? ) and exactly how to read and understand them.[/QUOTE]
that's where I am now, I can connect to the awd with tunerpro and motronic suite as it is a 4.4 ecu, but I was struggling to connect to the 4.3 in the T-5R despite swapping a couple of pins about as suggested by a very helpful member on here who was giving me a hand to try and get mine datalogged so hopefully we can progress a bit more this season on the strip. Had stopped on this for a bit and was planning to build a bench dock for the ecu's and start again from there, hope to sort that by the end of the month if nothing else gets in the way
Post 794759 by claymore on 2016-01-10 15:07:23
[QUOTE=Dream3r;794756]or transplant the moates from TT?[/QUOTE]
Don't understand what any of that means....lol, I did say, this thread needs to be for the complete numpties :D
Post 794763 by MoleT-5R on 2016-01-10 15:28:33
[QUOTE=claymore;794759]Don't understand what any of that means....lol, I did say, this thread needs to be for the complete numpties :D[/QUOTE]
I think he means to remove the moates/ostrich from the tt and add it to the 4.4 ecu like Rob has done in his build threads
Post 794765 by claymore on 2016-01-10 15:50:07
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;794763]I think he means to remove the moates/ostrich from the tt and add it to the 4.4 ecu like Rob has done in his build threads[/QUOTE]
Yep, I understand now. I think the TT USB has more value as a complete unit, I could probably sell it complete with a laptop and just about get two Ostriches for the money.
Post 794766 by MoleT-5R on 2016-01-10 16:02:30
[QUOTE=claymore;794765]Yep, I understand now. I think the TT USB has more value as a complete unit, I could probably sell it complete with a laptop and just about get two Ostriches for the money.[/QUOTE]
fair comment, but don't forget to keep a copy of your files and the software so you are able to read your data when setting up your modified 4.4 ecu's or you will be starting from scratch again as far as I see it.
Post 794767 by MoleT-5R on 2016-01-10 16:07:57
second thought, if you bought 1 more ostrich and fitted it to a 4.3 ecu ( I'm guessing the original tt is 4.3 ) then surely you could flash it to run your tt settings as a tt and still have easy mapping as your have now, hardware would be the easy bit, but the software must be possible.
Post 794770 by Dangerous Dave on 2016-01-10 16:38:55
AFAIK the maps on an M4.4 can only be read by desoldering (or connecting onto) the chip inside the ecu and reading with an external device (actually only half the map can be read via the OBD port, which is no good as the ignition and fuelling is on the other half).
As far as I know the TT values are different to the values in standard maps (thought they must translate at some point, unless the whole binary was changed which is a lot of work I guess).
For live mapping the M4.4 ecus you would need to fit one ecu with an ostrich box and map each engine individually.
It can be done without an ostrich box but this requires programming the ecu every time you want to make a change.
Post 794772 by claymore on 2016-01-10 16:59:03
As the TT has an ostrich in it, if I fit an ostrich into one of the 4.4's will the TT software read it, I know that Jim's TT was a 4.4, so there must be a way.
Post 794794 by Dangerous Dave on 2016-01-10 18:38:44
[QUOTE=claymore;794772]As the TT has an ostrich in it, if I fit an ostrich into one of the 4.4's will the TT software read it, I know that Jim's TT was a 4.4, so there must be a way.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how the TT software and ostrich work together, could be any number of ways.
Either way I guess you need the M4.4 TT software, or the ostrich to be programmed with a 'TT M4.4' map for it to work (unless it wasn't that locked down, you never know).
Tunerpro should be able to connect to the ostrich if all else fails.
Post 794797 by claymore on 2016-01-10 19:13:50
[QUOTE=Dangerous Dave;794794]I don't know how the TT software and ostrich work together, could be any number of ways.
Either way I guess you need the M4.4 TT software, or the ostrich to be programmed with a 'TT M4.4' map for it to work (unless it wasn't that locked down, you never know).
Tunerpro should be able to connect to the ostrich if all else fails.[/QUOTE]
The TT software is the same for M4.3 and M4.4, I could quite happily read and flash Jims ecu.
Post 794798 by Dangerous Dave on 2016-01-10 19:29:25
[QUOTE=claymore;794797]The TT software is the same for M4.3 and M4.4, I could quite happily read and flash Jims ecu.[/QUOTE]
Well, there's only one way to find out...
:D
Post 794801 by Jamest5r on 2016-01-10 19:53:30
[QUOTE=claymore;794797]The TT software is the same for M4.3 and M4.4, I could quite happily read and flash Jims ecu.[/QUOTE]
Tis true I could also run 4.3 maps on the 4.4 without any issues.
Post 794802 by JT on 2016-01-10 20:21:21
Agreed! ;)
Post 794803 by MoleT-5R on 2016-01-10 20:33:34
so tt is better than 4.3 and 4.4 if it is able to handle both so easily, next question is how is it so easily able to run both as I would not thought it possible ??
Post 794805 by claymore on 2016-01-10 20:50:33
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;794803]so tt is better than 4.3 and 4.4 if it is able to handle both so easily, next question is how is it so easily able to run both as I would not thought it possible ??[/QUOTE]
TT isn't an ecu, TT is just an alternative to Tuner Pro.
Post 794806 by MoleT-5R on 2016-01-10 21:01:24
[QUOTE=claymore;794805]TT isn't an ecu, TT is just an alternative to Tuner Pro.[/QUOTE]
and an emulator fitted to an ecu, acting as an interface, if I understand it correctly
Post 794809 by claymore on 2016-01-10 21:18:03
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;794806]and an emulator fitted to an ecu, acting as an interface, if I understand it correctly[/QUOTE]
The interface between the ecu and the software (TT or tuner pro) is the Ostrich.
Post 794816 by Jamest5r on 2016-01-10 21:51:02
What you need to do is crack the code/values Adam used to convert the code into tt language if you get me.
Post 794818 by claymore on 2016-01-10 21:57:19
[QUOTE=Jamest5r;794816]What you need to do is crack the code/values Adam used to convert the code into tt language if you get me.[/QUOTE]
In the word of Jeremy Clarkson "how hard could it be" :D
Post 794824 by MoleT-5R on 2016-01-10 22:27:32
[QUOTE=claymore;794809]The interface between the ecu and the software (TT or tuner pro) is the Ostrich.[/QUOTE]
yep that is what i meant, it is all hardware driven, so tunerpro should, possibly with help be able to work your tt euc in theory....just throwing it out there.... it is all doable just a matter of time as I see it
Post 794855 by claymore on 2016-01-11 12:51:14
Initial test of a m4.4 ecu in both engines on the T10 did not go well, both engines start and tick over fine, but as soon as any throttle is given, both engines die and return to tick over, I suspect that the ecu is probably looking for sensor data that neither of my engines have. both ecu's work fine in the T-5R
Post 794865 by MoleT-5R on 2016-01-11 15:44:00
[QUOTE=claymore;794855]Initial test of a m4.4 ecu in both engines on the T10 did not go well, both engines start and tick over fine, but as soon as any throttle is given, both engines die and return to tick over, I suspect that the ecu is probably looking for sensor data that neither of my engines have. both ecu's work fine in the T-5R[/QUOTE]
so the next question is what is different on the t-10k (OBD1 ???) as the ecus work in the t-5r, I did have similar issue when I tried the 850r mapped ecu in the Gul but it was drivable till you throttled it and then it started standing off, but runs beautifully in the olive t-5r
Post 794869 by claymore on 2016-01-11 16:35:11
Both engines are obd2, but it could be tps on the front one and on the rear one lord only knows :), I'll try the ecu off Pauls car in the T-5R tomorrow and try the one off Mike in the T-10.
Post 794873 by MoleT-5R on 2016-01-11 16:51:58
[QUOTE=claymore;794869]Both engines are obd2, but it could be tps on the front one and on the rear one lord only knows :), I'll try the ecu off Pauls car in the T-5R tomorrow and try the one off Mike in the T-10.[/QUOTE]
puzzling....you imagine them to work if the car starts, is the rear engine a standard loom or just bits and pieces of what is needed to run ??
Post 794878 by claymore on 2016-01-11 17:15:26
[QUOTE=MoleT-5R;794873]puzzling....you imagine them to work if the car starts, is the rear engine a standard loom or just bits and pieces of what is needed to run ??[/QUOTE]
Rear engine is definitely a chopped down loom :)
Post 794879 by Dangerous Dave on 2016-01-11 17:21:12
Would possibly need to run a code reader to determine the issue. Also could be something in the map which is causing an issue.
Post 794881 by claymore on 2016-01-11 17:39:22
I'm not worried at the moment, I'm just glad that both engines run with the new ecu's
