Mysterious Coolent Leak T5 2006

Post 797757 by sanj on 2016-03-06 20:35:32

Hi, I have a mysterious coolent leak only my T5 06. There are no visible leaks. If I put in bars leak or anything simular it will cure it, but having just drained the coolent and topped it up I don't want to put bars leak in it again, I'd rather find the leak and fix it. I'm trying to find a diagram for the coolent lines to point me in the right direction. Anyone have one? I do have some dye, but I find the coolant itself is easily visible with ultra violet light. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers Sanj

Post 797759 by M-R-P on 2016-03-06 20:52:30

Mine leaks at the bulkhead connections to the heater matrix (in the engine bay) it's quite hard to see but you can feel it.

Post 797762 by Harvey on 2016-03-06 21:37:48

How quickly does it lose it ?.

Post 797764 by Ric@rdo on 2016-03-06 22:15:26

Mine had the same issue until 2 weeks ago the expansion tank finally gave up... The leak was on the expansion tank, that had a small crack on the bottom. Check yours.

Post 797810 by sanj on 2016-03-08 06:34:43

When cold, I put in 50 50 coolent and water started car and when it got to temperature the coolent low stop engine light came on, so losing it pretty fast

Post 797811 by Tim Williams on 2016-03-08 08:20:55

It should be quite easy to see that amount of loss. Does it produce a lot more steam when idling than other cars and have very hard coolant hoses when running? If so it may be the head gasket. Heater matrix, do you get a sweet smell in the cabin and a film on the inside of the screen? Radiator, they are most prone to leaking on the inlet boss in front of the power steering pump so check around there and under it. Also check the passenger side of the radiator all the way to the bottom where the drain is. Thermostat, they can leak and leave a mess behind the power steering pump. Hoses, your bottom radiator hose wasn't designed to clear a P clip that's fitted to the airbox mounting bracket and they rub through the hose on the airbox mount near the starter motor. Just remove the P clip. The only coolant hose that isn't reinforced is the one from the passenger side of the top of the radiator to the top of the header tank, they split on both ends. Header tank, they are prone to micro cracks showing up as scratches in the plastic. lift the bottle up and if possible separate the PAS bottle from it to inspect. Also if the system could of been over pressurised then the cap should be changed.

Post 797843 by Harvey on 2016-03-09 10:43:49

Any luck finding where it's going ?

Post 797846 by 960kg on 2016-03-09 11:50:09

[QUOTE=sanj;797757]Hi, I have a mysterious coolent leak only my T5 06. There are no visible leaks. If I put in bars leak or anything simular it will cure it, but having just drained the coolent and topped it up I don't want to put bars leak in it again, I'd rather find the leak and fix it. I'm trying to find a diagram for the coolent lines to point me in the right direction. Anyone have one? I do have some dye, but I find the coolant itself is easily visible with ultra violet light. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers Sanj[/QUOTE] The Bars Leaks you put in should still be in the hole or crack that it previously blocked as it circulates with the coolant and becomes operative on finding these and will harden in the hole or crack so you should not have the leak even though you have changed the coolant. You said it stopped the leak so it should still be the same! Whenever replacing the reservoir cap don`t use the aftermarket Black one as these falter use the Volvo Green one.

Post 797850 by LeeT5 on 2016-03-09 14:48:15

[QUOTE=960kg;797846]The Bars Leaks you put in should still be in the hole or crack that it previously blocked as it circulates with the coolant and becomes operative on finding these and will harden in the hole or crack so you should not have the leak even though you have changed the coolant. You said it stopped the leak so it should still be the same! Whenever replacing the reservoir cap don`t use the aftermarket Black one as these falter use the Volvo Green one.[/QUOTE] I'd be inclined to agree with everything 960kg has said. If you've already used a leak inhibitor and it stopped the leak then, unless it's leaking from a hose join that you can easily disturb, you really are going to struggle to find it. I would just fill it with the correct mix of Volvo antifreeze and water, change the header tank and cap and then keep an eye on the reservoir level. If it doesn't go down any more, then what's there to fix?

Post 797898 by sanj on 2016-03-10 18:51:18

Still no luck in finding it. Good point about the bars leak being in the system even though I have changed the coolent. This is not what I'm experiencing tho.. I cant help but think it's getting into the cylinder somehow and being pushed out with the exhaust gases but without taking off the head I will never know... The car is just a weekend car tbh, something for me to rag around and feel some power. I do want to upgrade some parts but wondering if I should get to bottom of this issue before I spend any more money on it, or just leave it, bars leak it and start ragging it again. I'm gonna persist for now, want to pessure test the cylinders and coolent system to help me focus my efforts thanks all

Post 797906 by M-R-P on 2016-03-10 19:35:50

Compression test may help identify leakage into the cylinders.

Post 797964 by LeeT5 on 2016-03-12 14:21:01

[QUOTE=sanj;797898]Still no luck in finding it. Good point about the bars leak being in the system even though I have changed the coolent. This is not what I'm experiencing tho.. I cant help but think it's getting into the cylinder somehow and being pushed out with the exhaust gases but without taking off the head I will never know... The car is just a weekend car tbh, something for me to rag around and feel some power. I do want to upgrade some parts but wondering if I should get to bottom of this issue before I spend any more money on it, or just leave it, bars leak it and start ragging it again. I'm gonna persist for now, want to pessure test the cylinders and coolent system to help me focus my efforts thanks all[/QUOTE] If you've drained the system then the BARS leak will be drained also! You don't need to pressure test the cylinders, you need to pressure test the cooling system. It will help to do a sniffer test also, as this will rule out or confirm Head gasket leaking. If you pressure test the system with the engine off, then you'll likely hear OR see the leak? I wouldn't advise you do any more mods until you have rectified this problem - That would be a very silly thing to do indeed!

Post 797965 by sanj on 2016-03-12 14:39:52

don't worry guys I won't be doing any more mods until this is sorted I have isolated it a little... only when the car is upto temperature does the coolent burn off out the exhaust (you can clearly see steam coming out). At this time the coolent temperature was 98deg... how does the thermostats work on my car?

Post 797966 by Harvey on 2016-03-12 15:08:27

My thermostat opens at 88 degree , so is the level dropping still ?. The steam from the exhaust is hard to say is it from burning the petrol or coolant.

Post 797969 by sanj on 2016-03-12 17:14:06

[QUOTE=LeeT5;797964]If you've drained the system then the BARS leak will be drained also! You don't need to pressure test the cylinders, you need to pressure test the cooling system. It will help to do a sniffer test also, as this will rule out or confirm Head gasket leaking. If you pressure test the system with the engine off, then you'll likely hear OR see the leak? I wouldn't advise you do any more mods until you have rectified this problem - That would be a very silly thing to do indeed![/QUOTE] Sniffer test good shout thanks will do it and report back cheers

Post 797971 by LeeT5 on 2016-03-12 17:36:39

To be fair, your going to need a sniffer test kit, cooling system pressure test kit and a laser thermostat to have any chance of accurately diagnosing this problem. My advice to you is to get the car to a good garage for further tests. Your stat will either open at 88*C or 92*C, depending on which stat you have fitted and also depending on whether or not it opens correctly. This can be checked with a laser thermo probe. Just because you see white smoke out the exhaust might mean you have condensated water accumulating in your exhaust and not nessesarily your head gasket leaking. Would be helpful in diagnosing if you can get live readings also. You'll be able to read exactly what the CTS is seeing and not the temperature gauge in the car. You really should get a garage to diagnose this for you else you could end up wasting lots of money with misdiagnosis or damaging your car even further. Have a look at your plugs. They will tell you if your burning coolant.

Post 797990 by sanj on 2016-03-13 08:47:32

Thanks, wise words Lee - i'm having a guy diagnose it for me.. will report back. Cheers

Post 798629 by sanj on 2016-03-25 23:28:18

so the results are........ sniffer test was solid blue, no change. There no exhaust gases in coolent. compression test without any oil dropped into spark plugs hole was 6 bar for all 5 cylinders. compression test with a little oil in spark plug hole for all 5 cylinders was on average 13bar. according to good old Haynes manual I don't have any head gasket issues, but i do have worn piston rings, a worn bore and above average carbon build up. kind of expected as It's done 170k miles and is ex ambulance. the spark plugs themselves did have some specs of pinky luminous coloring on there showing under ultra violet light... coolent maybe? as that is the same color. so what to do next... hmmm I also noticed a hissing sound coming from the coolent tank once car was turned off but up to tempreture. also the coolent seemed to hold pressure better while I had the sniffer test squeezed into the coolent tanks opening. I should prob change the cap at least.

Post 798631 by Tim Williams on 2016-03-26 07:32:49

If you have a large coolant loss and no coolant smell in the cabin or combustion gas in the coolant it must be possible to see where it's going. You have a very obvious external leak that you just need to look for. First I would replace your cap and bottle but you also have VERY low compression, 6 Bar is right on the limit of not starting. Regardless of whether you have noticed it or not the fuel consumption is increased, performance is poor and it won't start as well as it should.

Post 798657 by LeeT5 on 2016-03-26 19:47:04

[QUOTE=sanj;798629]so the results are........ sniffer test was solid blue, no change. There no exhaust gases in coolent. compression test without any oil dropped into spark plugs hole was 6 bar for all 5 cylinders. compression test with a little oil in spark plug hole for all 5 cylinders was on average 13bar. according to good old Haynes manual I don't have any head gasket issues, but i do have worn piston rings, a worn bore and above average carbon build up. kind of expected as It's done 170k miles and is ex ambulance. the spark plugs themselves did have some specs of pinky luminous coloring on there showing under ultra violet light... coolent maybe? as that is the same color. so what to do next... hmmm I also noticed a hissing sound coming from the coolent tank once car was turned off but up to tempreture. also the coolent seemed to hold pressure better while I had the sniffer test squeezed into the coolent tanks opening. I should prob change the cap at least.[/QUOTE] There is one test you have not performed! A cooling system pressure test. I have one as I'm sure Tim does too. We would be able to pressurise your cooling system with the engine off up to about 15psi. Then and only then will you be able to look for coolant leaks, listen for hissing noise of maybe a split hose or leak somewhere and watch the needle on the gauge to see if it drops (indicating a blatant leak). I did say Cooling system pressure test....not chucking oil down your cylinder bores, which is not the same thing. That is a cylinder Compression check! Just doing a sniffer test is only half the checks and only tells you that there is no combustion gases present in the cooling system, which there shouldn't be.

Post 798667 by sanj on 2016-03-26 23:42:56

[QUOTE=LeeT5;798657]There is one test you have not performed! A cooling system pressure test. I have one as I'm sure Tim does too. We would be able to pressurise your cooling system with the engine off up to about 15psi. Then and only then will you be able to look for coolant leaks, listen for hissing noise of maybe a split hose or leak somewhere and watch the needle on the gauge to see if it drops (indicating a blatant leak). I did say Cooling system pressure test....not chucking oil down your cylinder bores, which is not the same thing. That is a cylinder Compression check! Just doing a sniffer test is only half the checks and only tells you that there is no combustion gases present in the cooling system, which there shouldn't be.[/QUOTE] it would be great if you could pressure test the cooling system for me, I have been looking into it but the kits are bit pricey, how would we go about arranging that..? cheers

Post 798677 by LeeT5 on 2016-03-27 13:40:54

[QUOTE=sanj;798667]it would be great if you could pressure test the cooling system for me, I have been looking into it but the kits are bit pricey, how would we go about arranging that..? cheers[/QUOTE] Well that depends on your location in the country?

Post 798678 by hillmangt on 2016-03-27 13:43:33

Could it possibly be showing a large coolant loss after initial filling due to air locking in the system. You don't say over what sort of mileage or timescale you are losing the coolant or indeed how much. As previously stated a poorly functioning cap or leaking reservoir can lead to loss of coolant simply because it boils off due to not being pressurised. The only way you will find out is by changing parts one by one or get a pressure test done when cold. good luck .

Post 798711 by Baj on 2016-03-27 21:51:06

Just gonna add my own experience here. I had a mystery leak too. It started as top-up (warning lamp) once a month and randomly progressed to a couple of times a week. I took it to my mate who did a pressure test. It was slowly leaking but neither of us could find where. He refilled with antifreeze and it stopped for about 3 weeks, then it was suddenly daily top-ups and then every journey. Eventually we found some water on the top backside of the front lip (in fairness it was raining a lot of the time it was leaking but still we should have seen it with the amount coming out) and there was a tiny (barely perceptible) stone hole in the radiator somewhere.

Post 798715 by LeeT5 on 2016-03-28 08:32:32

[QUOTE=hillmangt;798678]Could it possibly be showing a large coolant loss after initial filling due to air locking in the system. You don't say over what sort of mileage or timescale you are losing the coolant or indeed how much. As previously stated a poorly functioning cap or leaking reservoir can lead to loss of coolant simply because it boils off due to not being pressurised. The only way you will find out is by changing parts one by one or get a pressure test done when cold. good luck .[/QUOTE] A Cooling system pressure test kit can test the cap as well as the cooling system.

Post 798722 by sanj on 2016-03-28 10:38:44

[QUOTE=LeeT5;798677]Well that depends on your location in the country?[/QUOTE] sent you private message cheers

Post 798725 by Baj on 2016-03-28 11:53:09

If you are down this way I know someone who can help too

Post 798727 by sanj on 2016-03-28 13:34:16

if anyone is in the Birmingham area with a cooling system pressure tester I could borrower, id be happy to bribe you with beer

Post 798741 by LeeT5 on 2016-03-28 18:36:48

[QUOTE=sanj;798727]if anyone is in the Birmingham area with a cooling system pressure tester I could borrower, id be happy to bribe you with beer[/QUOTE] If you don't know what your doing with one and more importantly, what to look for, then I wouldn't advise that. Best you seek professional advice rather than waste money on a cooling system pressure tester. They don't come with instructions and you could easily misdiagnose a fault without proper training on one. I think I live too far away for you to travel, Tim is much closer and probably your best bet. 150 miles with a suspect cooling system issue is generally, not recommended. If Tim is busy (which is always the case) then a good local garage may be a better option. Wouldn't want you to cause a bigger problem by driving it a long distance.

Post 800170 by LeeT5 on 2016-04-27 09:27:04

So, did you find the leak?

Post 802944 by sanj on 2016-07-09 21:48:31

I have pressure tested all 5 cylinders and sniffer tested the coolent expension tank and all looks fine. Solid 13bar pressure and no exhaust gases in the coolent. So, I can only believe that somehow the turbo or coolent lines going to the turbo is leaking coolent directly into the exhuast, can this ever happen?? Thanks

Post 802946 by LeeT5 on 2016-07-09 21:58:06

[QUOTE=sanj;802944]I have pressure tested all 5 cylinders and sniffer tested the coolent expension tank and all looks fine. Solid 13bar pressure and no exhaust gases in the coolent. So, I can only believe that somehow the turbo or coolent lines going to the turbo is leaking coolent directly into the exhuast, can this ever happen?? Thanks[/QUOTE] You need to pressure test the system not the cylinders!

Post 802947 by sanj on 2016-07-09 22:05:09

Oh yeh, I've not pressure tested the coolent system yet, I forgot you mentioned that before .. But entertain me a little, could the turbo or coolent lines running to the turbo leak coolent into the exhuast directly? I pressure tested the cylinders to make good of the head gasket

Post 802951 by LeeT5 on 2016-07-10 04:19:04

If coolant was leaking directly at the turbo and into the exhaust, the car would be undriveable! You would have plumes of white smoke from the exhaust, so I guess, you can rule that one out. If you properly pressure tested the cooling system, you'd see the gauge needle on the tester drop with a leak. You'd also expect to see coolant appear on the floor and possibly hear it leaking, all this with the engine off! If the engine is running and you do the same test and the coolant is leaking via the H/G, then the gauge needle would rise abnormally and not in correlation with pressure from expansion of the said coolant. This could only really be detected by someone with experience of using the tester regularly in the field or by a garage, not by a one off home mechanic. Remember, you're diagnosing the cause of the symptoms not the symptoms of the cause! You can check to see if the waterpump is working with a CSPT (Cooling system pressure tester) also with as little as 5 psi on the gauge and a negative or positive movement on the gauge with a blip of the throttle, depending on which side of the WP the gauge is. If you get no movement, often difficult to see, then suspect WP function. With a CSPT alone you can check/diagnose: WP function Static system pressure Expose HG leaking internal/external Cap pressure and function Test above with engine running or off. It is vital a CSPT is used correctly as misdiagnosis through inexperience is common place and injury by scalding is also possible. I would seek professional help Sanj, else it may cost you dearly if you get it wrong.