Daft question here...it's a long time since I was lectured on the Health & Safety at Work Act. Recently I saw a job advert stating applicants 'must have full PPE'. Isn't the employer supposed to provide all protective equipment..? http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/ppe.htm
I think self-employed have to supply their own.
Thanks fella, I found this discussion on it http://forum.iosh.co.uk/?g=posts&t=99296 At the end one guy mentions that if a company supplies PPE to a subby then there's a risk that HMRC will view them as direct employees. Definition of self-employed: https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/selfemployed-contractor [I]Someone is probably self-employed and doesn’t have the rights of an employee if they’re exempt from PAYE and most of the following are also true: they put in bids or give quotes to get work they’re not under direct supervision when working they submit invoices for the work they’ve done they’re responsible for paying their own National Insurance and tax they don’t get holiday or sick pay when they’re not working they operate under a contract (sometimes known as a ‘contract for services’ or ‘consultancy agreement’) that uses terms like ‘self-employed’, ‘consultant’ or an ‘independent contractor’[/I] Now I fall into all of those categories except for bidding for work...& I get PPE provided for my work (minimum is boots, overalls, gloves, safety hat, glasses, ear defenders + speciality stuff as & when depending on what I'm doing like BA sets for H2S areas, gas detectors for confined space entry, ropes/harnesses for work at height & over sea, boil in the bag suits for flying, whatever is needed). If I needed to provide all that it wouldn't be worth me doing the work! Where I saw the advert was on Linked In, with a phone number to call so I assumed it was for guys to ring up & get a position rather than bid for work. It must be an employment agency putting the responsibility for protective gear onto their 'self-employed' workers. Some stuff here about it... http://www.hrzone.com/engage/managers/ask-the-expert-who-is-responsible-for-providing-personal-protective-equipment-on Beats me why a self-employed guy needs to go through an employment agency to do a job for another company. Maybe I don't have a full understanding of it but what value are they adding?? Taking regular money without providing any benefits to the worker
Martin is indeed correct, however, in my experience, if you wear Hi viz, hard hat, and coat emblazened with the company's competitors name and logo, they soon provide you with their's. ;)
[QUOTE=jamesy12345;803249]Thanks fella, I found this discussion on it http://forum.iosh.co.uk/?g=posts&t=99296 At the end one guy mentions that if a company supplies PPE to a subby then there's a risk that HMRC will view them as direct employees. Definition of self-employed: https://www.gov.uk/employment-status/selfemployed-contractor [I]Someone is probably self-employed and doesn’t have the rights of an employee if they’re exempt from PAYE and most of the following are also true: they put in bids or give quotes to get work they’re not under direct supervision when working they submit invoices for the work they’ve done they’re responsible for paying their own National Insurance and tax they don’t get holiday or sick pay when they’re not working they operate under a contract (sometimes known as a ‘contract for services’ or ‘consultancy agreement’) that uses terms like ‘self-employed’, ‘consultant’ or an ‘independent contractor’[/I] Now I fall into all of those categories except for bidding for work...& I get PPE provided for my work (minimum is boots, overalls, gloves, safety hat, glasses, ear defenders + speciality stuff as & when depending on what I'm doing like BA sets for H2S areas, gas detectors for confined space entry, ropes/harnesses for work at height & over sea, boil in the bag suits for flying, whatever is needed). If I needed to provide all that it wouldn't be worth me doing the work! Where I saw the advert was on Linked In, with a phone number to call so I assumed it was for guys to ring up & get a position rather than bid for work. It must be an employment agency putting the responsibility for protective gear onto their 'self-employed' workers. Some stuff here about it... http://www.hrzone.com/engage/managers/ask-the-expert-who-is-responsible-for-providing-personal-protective-equipment-on Beats me why a self-employed guy needs to go through an employment agency to do a job for another company. Maybe I don't have a full understanding of it but what value are they adding?? Taking regular money without providing any benefits to the worker[/QUOTE] Agencies are a con, they'll take a slice of your wages every week, then you're paid througj an umbrella company, who take another slice. I work direct for a construction company, although I'm self employed, they pay me direct every week, and am taxed at a flat 20 % (CIS scheme), all gets sorted out in my tax return atvthe end of the year.
Just came across this it's been discussed before... http://www.shponline.co.uk/agencies-face-accusations-of-defying-ppe-rules/ ...so I guess the agencies try to get around this by using self-employed guys. [QUOTE=stribo;803250]Martin is indeed correct, however, in my experience, if you wear Hi viz, hard hat, and coat emblazened with the company's competitors name and logo, they soon provide you with their's. ;)[/QUOTE] :lol: good one
If you work for the agency it is their responsibility to provide you with the correct PPE for your job - that's what their mark up should help cover as they are essentially you employer. If you're CIS/self employed you'll be expected to provide your own PPE unless a deal has been done with the main contractor to supply you with what you need. All direct labour (on the cards) should expect their company to provide whatever they need PPE wise to enable them to complete works safely. HTH. Cheers, Morgan
Fair do's that seems logical, it just seemed odd to me for an employment agency, which in my experience is the employer, to ask their employees to bring along a hard hat etc. Anyway i commented on the job advert on Linkedin and the company said much the same - they were expecting to 'employ' self-employed guys (or girls even). They actually used the word employ in the response. Being self-employed for tax advantage seems to me a different subject to whether or not your employer has an obligation to provide decent PPE, but i suppose greater minds than mine have considered this already. Fecking agencies like vampires living off guys with skills In my game the companies use agencies to hide the nationalities of the workers from the local governments - so on the client's books are all locals, as required by nationalisation policies...then the travelling lads are employed via agency. Crooked but at least PPE is provided!
LOL - sounds about right. Agencies will try & cream as much off the top as they can, it a depressing business model. If they can get away with avoiding a few legal requirements then they will. But if someone employs you then they HAVE to provide you with the correct PPE, no matter how much they squeal about it there's no wriggle room in the eyes of the HSE.......another bunch of sheisters as it goes...:doh: